Give AM and Hu more starting ammo

[tabstorm]

AM and Hu are very irritating to play because of the constant weapon swapping to conserve ammo and because of the disincentive to train ranged due to the (high) likelihood of running out of ammo quickly without Oka or Trog. This often leaves you wondering why you picked a ranged start in the first place. Giving AM and Hu more ammo to start would at least sort of improve this issue. Obviously ranged combat (and especially AM) is degenerate in Crawl anyway, but it's preferable to have it not be both degenerate and annoying.

Also, please replace Gell's with Tukima's Dance. Gell's is just bad, and Tukima's basically replaced Enslavement in the En book, so why not do the same in the AM book?

[pumpyscump]

> AM and Hu more ammo to start
> replace Gell's with Tukima's Dance

Someone's been playing Circus Animals.

[Leszczynek]

Power creep.

Besides I'm pretty sure it wouldn't solve the basic problem you're presenting - you'd still run out and you'd still have to use other means of fighting, unless we're talking a lot more starting ammo, which is ridiculous.

[nago]

Well, I think something like 40-60 missiles should be a good change, as it would allow to commonly clear early D with the starting items - which is what a background usually provide. If it is too strong - probably with hand xbow would be - it's more about ranged combat being broken.
Currently Hu\AM has to use the starting weapon only against dangerous threats, and rely on whatever crap the god floor provides to kill the rest, plus kiting and other boring stuff like picking missiles during prolonged fights.

At least Hu get a shitty short blade to hint it should melee weak things, there's no reasons why AM shouldn't get it too.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

Or get rid of ammo altogether (i.e. bows come with inbuilt ammo) and reduce ranged effectiveness. Unfortunately, fast species would become more tedious I guess. Hmm.

[tabstorm]

> AM and Hu more ammo to start
> replace Gell's with Tukima's Dance

Someone's been playing Circus Animals.

Hey, at least there's no eating...

I actually never played AM in that fork, I just think Gell's is complete garbage.

[tabstorm]

Another suggestion: Give launchers their own slot and macro F to ranged-autofight. Currently F lets you throw any item from your inventory, I don't think this has much of a purpose without item destruction.

[Shard1697]

It lets me throw Cerebov's sword into the lava after I kill him

[infinitevox]

> AM and Hu more ammo to start
> replace Gell's with Tukima's Dance

Someone's been playing Circus Animals.

Hey, at least there's no eating...

I actually never played AM in that fork, I just think Gell's is complete garbage.

I personally think Gell's should work (or "pulse") over 2-3 turns, allowing it to function as a psuedo escape mechanism.
About the topic at hand, I'm inclined to agree about a little bit more starting ammo. As ranged backgrounds, shouldn't Hu and AM be able to be ranged at least until like... Lair-ish?
Other backgrounds starter kits can get you there, so why not these as well?

(I'm ignoring the "ranged is busted" discussion as one of the Devs stated in another thread that ranged combat was getting an overhaul on this next patch.)

[tabstorm]

AM already has cause fear for an escape. I don't think trying to make Gell's more complicated in order to save it is a good idea, it is not worth saving.

[Leszczynek]

Currently F lets you throw any item from your inventory, I don't think this has much of a purpose without item destruction.

What about using throwing nets with a ranged weapon?

[Siegurt]

Currently F lets you throw any item from your inventory, I don't think this has much of a purpose without item destruction.

What about using throwing nets with a ranged weapon?

And don't forget throwing spellbooks with trog!

[crate]

Leda's works as an escape also, by the way; a human using Leda's moves faster than a speed-10 monster affected by it.

F is still useful as long as needles and throwing weapons have brands. I almost never fire curare with "f"; I use "F" instead. If ammo brands actually get removed then F is not very useful though.

[tabstorm]

You know you can just quiver and throw ranged weapons like tomahawks and javelins with f... I don't understand why you would use F.

[crate]

If I want to shoot just one curare needle (very common, since once you hit you don't want to shoot more) it is much easier to use F, since then I don't have to both quiver and then unquiver (possibly forgetting the latter step!) when I use curare.

Also if you want ranged autofight on its own key, how about replacing one of "s" or ".", considering they do the exact same thing (instead of replacing a potentially useful key). If the user doesn't like which of s/. gets changed you can just use macros to swap them.

[Rast]

Leda's works as an escape also, by the way; a human using Leda's moves faster than a speed-10 monster affected by it.

Seriously? Wow.

[crate]

Yes, seriously. It's still worse than swiftness since the aoe drops with time (so eventually it's just you being slowed) but if you do it in the right position you can use it to get a 1 tile gap and take a staircase.

[nago]

Not bad for a lv.5 double schools spell.