Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 02:15

Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons

Or make it so that summoned Chaos Spawn don't leave a cloud of chaos when they die. It's very dubiously helpful and often annoying because of how it can restrict the player's movement and you don't have direct control of when they summon, and more importantly, it interacts quite badly with other Beogh followers:

Image
Image
the tl;dr for this weird situation is that while stairdancing, my sorcerer summoned a chaos spawn, the chaos spawn died, one of my orc warlords just kinda casually walked into the cloud of chaos and got first petrified and then polymorphed into a shapeshifter, then randomly shapeshifted into an Apis, then since he was an Apis he became enraged because I was a beogh follower and beogh is an evil god, so me and my other orc warlords murdered him, and then I suppose creatures polymorphed into shapeshifters don't return to their original shape on death because shapeshifters already return to a 'different' form of the purple flesh shapeshifter body on death, so instead of dropping an orc corpse he dropped a shapeshifter corpse and I was unable to resurrect him.

Now, that's a pretty funny Rube Goldberg mutation machine situation, but it's pretty bad that allies can (once in a while, unexpectedly)do something as potentially dangerous as making things that leave clouds of chaos around, which your other allies will cheerily walk into and get themselves killed or totally incapacitated. It's alright for the player to summon chaos spawns IMO, since at least the player chooses on which turn they will summon a randomized demon(and can thus choose not to do so), but you have little non-annoying control over which type of orcs are following you and much less over what they choose to do.

For this message the author Shard1697 has received thanks:
chequers

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 747

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 12:30

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 02:40

Re: Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons

The best solution might be to make allied orcs not step into chaos clouds.

For this message the author Wahaha has received thanks: 3
chequers, Rast, ydeve
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1591

Joined: Saturday, 3rd August 2013, 18:59

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 02:59

Re: Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons

This is a decent suggestion for improving Beogh, as much as I hate the concept of changing something that isn't broken just to pander to a broken niche of the game, at least its moving in the right direction, and chaos spawns are not that interesting of enemies anyway.

Spoiler: show
"Bandaid Solution!"
"Beogh is the real problem!"
"Down with Dpeg!"
To all new players: Ignore all strategy guides posted on the wiki, ask questions in the Advice forum, players with lots of posts normally have the best advice.

crawl.akrasiac.org:8080 <- take this link to play online or spectate.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 03:15

Re: Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons

Chaos clouds in general are problematic. Chaos effects shouldn't include cloning or healing, at the very least.

Shard1697 wrote:I suppose creatures polymorphed into shapeshifters don't return to their original shape on death because shapeshifters already return to a 'different' form of the purple flesh shapeshifter body on death, so instead of dropping an orc corpse he dropped a shapeshifter corpse and I was unable to resurrect him.
Actually, what happened is that chaos has a specific chance to turn the affected monster into a shapeshifter (half as likely as polymorphing them). This gets rid of their original corpse and experience value. It's dumb (though regular polymorph also gets rid of the original experience value)

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks:
Shard1697
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 03:29

Re: Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons

Wahaha wrote:The best solution might be to make allied orcs not step into chaos clouds.
It's still potentially dangerous for the player since it can block somewhere you want to move with a chaos cloud, or berserk/haste an enemy, etc-seems rough for something that happens if an orc sorcerer randomly decides to summon and then randomly gets a chaos spawn. And I think it doesn't really make sense for chaos spawn to leave chaos clouds on death even when summoned, since summons don't leave anything else behind on death.

Like I said I think it's more ok if the player casts Summon Demon and randomly gets a Chaos Spawn since then the player is choosing to roll the dice in that way(although some of that beogh interaction would still be weird, even in that case), but I'm still unsure about the clouds left on death and the whole rest of that sequence. Not sure why holy allies become enraged if you are "evil", seems like an old feature done for the sake of flavor that I can't imagine coming up anywhere near often enough to matter.
Last edited by Shard1697 on Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 03:34, edited 1 time in total.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 03:31

Re: Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons

Actually monsters your god hates being unable to become allies is relevant for enslavement, which exists in most games since it's a wand effect. This has definitely confused players in the past (and indirectly led to a really great bug where you could get permanent allies from shadow creatures).

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 03:56

Re: Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons

User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 04:06

Re: Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons


I'm glad someone made this point so I didn't have to write up how much I dislike that.

Even if that's kept, is it really relevant in the other direction-getting holy allies while following an evil god? There are barely any holy monsters in the game! Actual Apis don't even show up outside of Holy pan.

Sar

User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6418

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 06:45

Re: Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons

That sounds like an amazing story, why would you want to remove something like that from the game???

For this message the author Sar has received thanks:
dynast
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1762

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 07:12

Re: Remove Chaos Spawn from allied Orc Sorceror summons

Because it's the kind of nonsense that is mostly only funny after the fact and in the moment when you're actually playing and your orc sorcerer fucks over your other orcs with chaos spawn it sucks.

If "absurd sequence of events which is funny to read" type stuff was valued over gameplay, Rupert farming would still exist.

Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.