Amulet of reflection too strong on certain characters?

[Leszczynek]

What I think: amulet of reflection, when coupled with good SH value, removes any serious threat of physical ranged attacks.

I might be wrong, I'm not a good player, I never managed to do extended etc. What I noticed though is that whenever I play a Fighter using a shield, amulet of reflection on its own absolutely obliterates centaurs, yaktaurs, elven archers, cyclops and so on. And I mean it, they are literally killing themselves. You can stand in place and just watch how they shoot themselves to death. It's fun, sure, but I have to wonder if it was intended. Deep elf master archers become a joke and I don't think they should.

I had an OpFi character who, upon entering Elf, was struggling hard even with basic elven archers. Switching regen amulet to the reflection one completely turned the tables. A single archer usually managed to harm me once or not at all before he killed himself with his own arrows. Master archers were the same. IIRC even one annihilator managed to slaughter himself.

Any character with a reflection amulet and decent SH value - normal shield and ~12 points in Shields is enough - no longer has to really fear yaktaur captains, stone giants or merfolk javelineers. OK, they manage to get some shots in, sometimes it might even hurt, but they are no longer life threatening - their threat levels fall far, far below what it usually is. Should it really work like that.

I wrote about good SH value before as it seems that just wearing the amulet isn't nearly as efficient. I don't know how reflection is coded though, so don't trust me too much on this. Bottom line, though, is this - amulets of reflection, even the weakest ones, are in my opinion too strong on capable shield wielding fighters. I like playing pure melee, tabbing myself to death and any addition that makes tabbing easier is welcome, but this is probably too much.

[dynast]

Amulet of reflection is, by far, the best amulet to have on at all times and i believe a nerf is bound to happen at some point.

[kuniqs]

javelins of penetration

[dynast]

You could have just said "bolt spells" but you decided to go with the rarest of the projectiles. Still, that doesnt undermine how good reflection is in comparison to every other amulet currently in trunk.

[bcadren]

Amulet of Reflection is the best amulet to have for areas with a lot of missiles: {Elf, Shoals, Vaults, Slime}.

It's less good for areas without a lot of missiles...and peters out completely in extended; where almost all missiles are bolt spells (which ignore SH) and there are a lot of fireballs, hellfire blasts, torment, etc. that ignore defenses.

Side Note: The amulet by itself is pretty shit. It's combining the amulet with SH Buff effects (Condensation Shield or Divine Shield) or a Shield of Resistance makes it decent. The amulet's SH is less than a buckler for Crite's Sake.

[duvessa]

reflection is wildly overrated and does very little

the only reason amulet of reflection is good is that it gives you +SH, the actual reflection part is barely meaningful

[chequers]

What is the chance for a reflected missile to hit its shooter? Does it depend on the shooter's EV?

[duvessa]

Reflected beams keep their to-hit, so it's going to be whatever the yaktaur's chance to hit itself was. Remember that you also need to have blocked the projectile in the first place...

[bcadren]

Reflection is really good with high SH; like on the tier of Yaktaur packs killing themselves in Vaults. With low SH...meh. It -is- situational though. When it doesn't come up +EV or +AC would be better...or Spirit Shield, Mana Regen, Regen...maybe faith (depends on the god)...

[Tiktacy]

reflection is wildly overrated and does very little

the only reason amulet of reflection is good is that it gives you +SH, the actual reflection part is barely meaningful

Agreed, a +3-5 boost to shields in a slot that rarely contains resistances to physical damage is actually quite good. I use it often and am very happy to find one on d:1-4 especially.

I think people so rarely realize how often shields block enemy attacks and often over-value the power of reflection as a result.

Gameplay wise, reflection gives some marginal benefits to survival, which is at least more than nothing. With that said, I think reflection is a really cool flavorful mechanic that I am happy to see in the game.

As far as well designed ego's go, this one is pretty high on the list, especially when you compare it to what the old amulets were like(rMut, Sustain Ability, clarity, good riddance!).

[Sar]

SustAb was never an amulet

[Lacuenta]

Its one of the best amulets too find early, and almost as good as a ring of ev with the same value the reflection part is just gravy, but does come up especially vs early centaurs/archers.
I've still got to try this but it should be pretty cool to have this with condensation shield and a nice battleaxe, basically makes you a formacid.

[Sar]

Condensation Shield was removed. TSO has a similar ability, though!

[Tiktacy]

SustAb was never an amulet

My mistake, I was thinking of the ring.

[bcadren]

I'll say it clearly. I don't think the amount of SH given by the amulet is that good BY ITSELF, but when it's stacked with another source of SH the total can be enough to actually sway a fight.

[MainiacJoe]

High SH does have a cost, though: XP, and (unless Fo) 1H weapon. So if I understand the design goal for the new amulets, that they be a semi-permanent thing a character builds around rather than swappable, then it would seem that "Refl is well designed. For the vast majority of monsters that aren't throwing/zapping stuff at you, the amulet does very little.

[prozacelf]

Condensation Shield was removed. TSO has a similar ability, though!

The TSO ability can even be used while you're already wearing a shield too!

RIP C. Shield.

[Shard1697]

The only thing I'll miss about condensation shield was using it and divine shield at the same time, mostly just because I liked the idea. Was gonna make fanart of that, actually.

[lethediver]

I feel reflection is a good shield ego. Not sure it belongs on an amulet.

[grisamentum]

Please don't remove it. It makes Shoals less frustrating, especially for melee characters that don't have swimming/flight.

[Chicken]

Is the current implementation that first the missile tries to reflect, then the shield gets to stop it? If so, you could reverse that - your shield protects the missilier as much as it protects you. That way, it's only weakened in combination with a shield, and only in *offensive* terms. There's a certain rationale to it to - if I picture reflection as an effect where you skin goes all mercury-like and the arrow passes through itself in a glow of magic as it reverses direction at a glowing disk of spatial warp at the surface of your skin ... well, that's inside your shield, not outside.

[crate]

You reflect a projectile if and only if you block said projectile, assuming you have reflection ego.

Reflection ego has no effect whatsoever on your defenses (other than it might deal damage which then kills enemies faster which then means you get attacked fewer times).

[Chicken]

Are you sure? You're saying all the time I tried an AoR without wearing a shield, I was just being an idiot? (It's hard for me to remember though since I usually use shields... but I'd thought sometimes there was stuff going back)

[chequers]

AoR gives SH. What crate technically means is if your SH blocks a projectile.

[Tiktacy]

Having played a game just recently as an octopode wielding a shield, I can indeed confirm the usefulness of reflection. Its actually quite impressive, more so then I ever thought it would be.

It helps especially against particularly dangerous casters such as deep elves since a single shot of their own spell tends to bring them down low enough to dispatch them via a wand or air strike. Also, boosting up shields early game gave me a serious edge in the specific case of octopodes. Additionally, I had a blast watching merfolks get caught in their own nets and stone giants getting smashed by their own boulders.

Over all, I think reflection amulet is a great addition to crawl and I give whoever came up with the idea a big thumbs up! =D

[Ceann]

Shield of Reflection has been around for a long time.
This does the exact same thing, SH value aside.
I think some people now realize it was better than they gave it credit for.

[prozacelf]

Shield of Reflection has been around for a long time.
This does the exact same thing, SH value aside.
I think some people now realize it was better than they gave it credit for.

I think the real value of it is being able to add reflection and some SH to a shield with another, better brand. Reflection is nice, but it really only shines in the cases of the Warlock's mirror and Chei worshippers, which are both atypical circumstances.

But then I've been on the shield bandwagon for quite some time.