Extending the Piety System


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 5

Joined: Saturday, 19th September 2015, 11:47

Post Friday, 8th January 2016, 22:38

Extending the Piety System

I find that during runs my piety usage changes a lot and stays interesting, that is until I hit max piety with my despised god and reach a point where I am highly unlikely to drop below 5 stars. I propose an extension system that could provide a good risk versus reward that would entirely change your use of piety. Essentially this would be implementable as an additional capacity for piety, however there are specific differences that make this not the same as simply increasing max piety. First, max piety would stay the same however once it is reached you start gaining overflow piety, this overflow would be lost instantly the moment you drop below 6 star piety and would not count towards regular piety usage or abilities. If you can maintain 6 star and continue to gain piety while you are at max, then at a specific point in overflow (perhaps double max piety) you would gain some extension to the god's granted powers, that when used would typically empty the overflow.

The aim here would be to diversify late game god usage, gods like vehumet, makhleb, okawaru, and trog for me jump to mind as being particularly singular in late game usage. Idealy max overflow god powers would be hard to obtain and provide the challenge of staying high piety with the recompense of an ability that will tempt you to try. How exactly this would work is obviously not entirely thought through for this post, and as such where I've provided specifics it is to aid in describing the theme of the idea, rather than being exactly how I think it had to function. The only other general idea would be to make overflow powers for gods that are easy to keep at max piety weaker than other gods.


Examples of overflow power ideas:

Ashenzari:
  • Temporarily boost a selected skill to max.

Cheibriados:
  • Remove an enemy from time (make them totally vanish for 100 auts).

Makhleb:
  • Swap current percentage of health with a target.

Okawaru:
  • Reduce min attack delay by some fraction of an aut for a short time.

Trog:
  • Trade some HP for random temporary bonuses such as resistances, damage, see invis, or stats.
  • Set a group of magic users on fire.

Vehumet:
  • Cast a keystone spell (regardless of memorization) without spending mana at the user's respective skill level(s).


I've no idea how to properly balance a change like this, so I'm sure that's a problem. Any thoughts?

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Friday, 8th January 2016, 23:21

Re: Extending the Piety System

This is the power spiral in action: you try to solve a problem (nothing happens if you reach a cap) by giving extra powers. This way, the strong get stronger.

I don't think that a change is necessary, but if you want to address your problem, why not make piety rarer: slower piety gain, or increased piety costs for powers?

Temple Termagant

Posts: 5

Joined: Saturday, 19th September 2015, 11:47

Post Friday, 8th January 2016, 23:56

Re: Extending the Piety System

dpeg wrote:This is the power spiral in action: you try to solve a problem (nothing happens if you reach a cap) by giving extra powers. This way, the strong get stronger.

I don't think that a change is necessary, but if you want to address your problem, why not make piety rarer: slower piety gain, or increased piety costs for powers?


I can't say you're wrong, but I'm talking about adding variety to late game piety without breaking early game piety which I think is spot on, your alternative ideas don't achieve that. If you have specific reasons to think this is too strong then maybe they can be resolved.
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1591

Joined: Saturday, 3rd August 2013, 18:59

Post Saturday, 9th January 2016, 00:20

Re: Extending the Piety System

I think you are setting up a good goal(to make piety interesting even after maxing out) but I don't think your solution would achieve that goal.

I also agree with dpeg though, it doesn't seem like an issue that is important enough to try to solve at this point. Gods, in my opinion, are very well designed for the most part. That doesn't mean individual gods don't need work, but the overall system that is in place for god worship is very solid.
To all new players: Ignore all strategy guides posted on the wiki, ask questions in the Advice forum, players with lots of posts normally have the best advice.

crawl.akrasiac.org:8080 <- take this link to play online or spectate.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 9th January 2016, 04:29

Re: Extending the Piety System

DizzySkin wrote:
dpeg wrote:This is the power spiral in action: you try to solve a problem (nothing happens if you reach a cap) by giving extra powers. This way, the strong get stronger.

I don't think that a change is necessary, but if you want to address your problem, why not make piety rarer: slower piety gain, or increased piety costs for powers?


I can't say you're wrong, but I'm talking about adding variety to late game piety without breaking early game piety which I think is spot on, your alternative ideas don't achieve that. If you have specific reasons to think this is too strong then maybe they can be resolved.
I assume his point is that piety gain should be slow enough that you cannot reach maximum piety.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 724

Joined: Tuesday, 29th November 2011, 11:04

Post Saturday, 9th January 2016, 06:17

Re: Extending the Piety System

Why aren't you using active god abilities more often?
"Damned, damned be the legions of the damned..."

Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 141 guests

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.