Change the Cost of Antimagic

[bcadren]

All other costs from rare brands discourage heavy swapping; the cost on Antimagic actually strongly encourages it. You get -2/3's MP while wielding. So if you know haste, phase shift, etc. CAST THEM; then wield your AM weapon. If you left Trog for TSO and want to summon some angels or blast with holy flame before wailing with your weapon; use your Invocations THEN wield your weapon. For that matter; conjure when it's at a distance switch to your weapon to melee when it's up close. It's just a very fiddly cost. In fact, since MP is used for things other than magic in crawl; it goes against it's own flavour. It's not antimagic; it's anti- magic, invocations and spirit shield. Can we either get rid of the wield cost or make it something that doesn't encourage heavy swapping?

More fitting cost ideas:

• Wielding the weapon removes any magical boosts you may have active (same as being hit by a QSilver Dragon's Breath). (No Haste that isn't from Berserk; no Phase Shift, etc. while wielding).
• (Un)wielding has a chance to drain spell skills. (Ignoring rN, like *Drain).

[milski]

In addition, if it needs a constant cost make it do what it does to monsters: huge -wiz whIle wieled and for a few dozen turns after removing. That prevents rebuffing/tactical blinking which is still possible on limited mana.

[nago]

I don't like the first proposal because that would encourage in many situation, especially as Be, to swap, haste, get in a safe spot, wield antimagic and hit things, eventually zerking.
The second one is better, at least for what I can think to avoid heavy swapping.

[Quazifuji]

Does the game distinguish between magical buffs and buffs from other sources (e.g. haste from haste spell vs haste from potion of haste)? Or would the "dispel magical boosts" idea mean it also dispels potions you've quaffed. If part of the problem with penalizing mana is that it's anti-invocations and spirit shield instead of purely anti-magic,I don't think replacing it with an effect that's anti-potions instead is any better.

-Wiz seems like a nice way to penalize spells but not other mechanics (from both a flavor and gameplay standpoint), but still has the same issue as the mana penalty in that it lets you cast haste and other buffs before wielding the weapon. That issue can be resolved by having the weapon also dispel magical buffs on wield, but then you're back to the first issue.

If it's possible to have the weapon dispel any buffs created by spells (but not other sources) on equip, and give a -wiz penalty while equipped (and possibly for some duration after unwielding it), then I think that would work nicely, aside from the awkwardness of differentiating between buffs from different sources.

[tedric]

Why differentiate between identical effects from different sources, especially when !cancellation and dispelling bolts don't bother to?

Seems to me the best way to discourage swapping and live up to its flavor would be cancellation-on-wield, -Cast and MP reduction while wielded, and some kind of timer or XP-gate for the removal of -Cast and MP reduction after unwielding (maybe with -Cast shifting to -Wiz either on unwield or partway through cooldown). That way you can still use potions, evokables, etc. while wielding, but can't pull swap-and-buff shenanigans from your own spellset.

[archaeo]

I'm not sure that antimagic desperately needs a cost to wield and unwield -- I assumed it was for flavor, not for balance.

[milski]

I'm not sure that antimagic desperately needs a cost to wield and unwield -- I assumed it was for flavor, not for balance.

I think the point is that the current "flavorful" restriction on Antimagic does far more to affect characters using god powers or Spirit Shield (e.g: not primary spellcasters) than those who actually cast spells. If it's supposed to be bad for magic users to use antimagic, then it needs a wield/unwield cost and possibly a different cost while holding it. If it's just supposed to be flavor, then it either needs a different cost while holding it or to just get rid of any penalties associated with it.

[kuniqs]

Maybe if antimagic weapon caused mp drain when you get hit, without shielding you from damage?

[bcadren]

I'm not sure that antimagic desperately needs a cost to wield and unwield -- I assumed it was for flavor, not for balance.

I could agree with this too honestly. I'm not sure a 'chance to make casters cantrip' really outclasses 'make caster [and everything else] die faster' brand like flaming or holy wrath. At least not by enough to give it a severe cost like that.

EDIT:
I ran a fight test (since AM doesn't affect damage a Wizmode check would do nothing) to see how much good antimagic does, in the one situation where it's obviously the best choice (vs. Lom Lobon). Note: Since AM's affect scales with the damage done, it'd probably be a worse brand on lower base dam weapons.

Saint Roka, HP boosted to 500, wielding Executioner's Axe of Holy Wrath, wearing a Crystal Plate Armour, Berserked vs Lom Lobon:
Saint Roka wins 9 out of 20 rounds.

Saint Roka, HP boosted to 500, wielding Executioner's Axe of Antimagic, wearing a Crystal Plate Armour, Berserked vs Lom Lobon:
Saint Roka wins 19 out of 20 rounds.

Saint Roka, HP boosted to 500, wielding Executioner's Axe of Chopping, wearing a Crystal Plate Armour, Berserked vs Lom Lobon:
Saint Roka wins 2 out of 20 rounds.

So versus heavily magical pan/hell lords i makes a big difference. It's a bit of a swap though in general; as you wouldn't want to use it against a powerful melee threat.

[Quazifuji]

Maybe if antimagic weapon caused mp drain when you get hit, without shielding you from damage?

This has a similar problem to lowering maximum mana: spellcasters frequently would just cast all their spells with something else wielding and swap weapons when out of mana, so it mostly prevents using more situational abilities, which are god powers as often as they are spells.

[Siegurt]

Well, it might be less weird if it lowered both your maximum *and current* MP by the same percentage.

[kuniqs]

Maybe if antimagic weapon caused mp drain when you get hit, without shielding you from damage?

This has a similar problem to lowering maximum mana: spellcasters frequently would just cast all their spells with something else wielding and swap weapons when out of mana, so it mostly prevents using more situational abilities, which are god powers as often as they are spells.

Using vampiric weapon as a template: you can wield antimagic weapon only at max mp, or 0 mp (special case for draining), and it drains half your mp on wield

[Pollen_Golem]

The ideas presented thus far are so fiddly and complicated they're not an improvement.
Some simple alternatives:

-Cast while wielded: swapping out to cast is viable, but I think it's ok... we have unrand weapons with -Cast, -Tele.

current MP gets set to zero when you wield AM. Or maybe when you un-wield AM. Or maybe both. I'm not sure which would be best.