Proposal: Automatic Doors


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 19

Joined: Tuesday, 21st January 2014, 09:05

Post Saturday, 29th August 2015, 21:55

Proposal: Automatic Doors

I think that doors are fairly uninteresting mechanically at the moment. Once you've opened a door while exploring, there's generally no reason to close it again, unless there's a tactically relevant time to do so (there's an enemy more than one square away that I want to get away from that can't open doors, or there's a ranged enemy that I want to make closer to me in safety) - in which case it's pretty much always the best thing to do. There's also two dedicated commands for opening and closing doors - which I feel is giving more interface value to them than they deserve.

With this in mind, I propose the following changes:

1) Doors can only be opened by entering their square (removing the 'O' and 'C' commands).
2) Opening a door takes no additional time.
3) As soon as there are no monsters, player, or items in the doorway, the door automatically closes.
4) For completeness, leaving a doorway takes no additional time.

This basically turns doors into permanent LOS blockers, which I hope will make for more interesting situations (or at the very least, not removing any currently interesting door-based situations, while removing two interface commands).

Some example situations:
Spoiler: show
  Code:
Before:
t0        t1        t2        t3
######    ######    ######    ######
.'@.Y. -> .@.Y.. -> @'Y... -> @+Y...
######    ######    ######    ######
After:
t0        t1        t2
######    ######    ######
.+@.Y. -> .@.Y.. -> @+Y...
######    ######    ######
This saves a turn, but you are in exactly the same situation as you would have been before (except you don't have LOS behind the door, so there may be a surprise there).

Before:
t0        t1        t2         t3
######    ######    ######    ######
..'@Y. -> ..@Y.. -> .@Y... -> @Y'..
######    ######    ######    ######
After:
t0        t1        t2         t3
######    ######    ######    ######
..+@Y. -> ..@Y.. -> .@Y... -> @Y+..
######    ######    ######    ######
No change, but the door closes behind the yak.

Before:
t0        t1        t2        t3
######    ######    ######    ######
.'@..c -> .@...c -> @'...c -> @+...c
######    ######    ######    ######
After:
t0        t1        t2
######    ######    ######
.+@..c -> .@...c -> @+...c
######    ######    ######
The centaur gets one less turn shooting at you

Before:
t0        t1        t2        t3
######    ######    ######    ######
.@+.o. -> .@'.o. -> .@'o..-> .@o...
######    ######    ######    ######
After:
t0        t1        t2        t3
######    ######    ######
.@+.o. -> ..@.o. -> ..@o..
######    ######    ######
You get two fewer turns shooting at the orc.



You will be more exposed when opening a door (as you have to be standing on its square, instead of one away from it), and areas previously thought safe may now have a monster the other side of a door that you don't notice until you're much closer to it. This also fixes the "You close the door. An orc opens the door. You close the door. An orc opens the door." etc. version of pillar dancing.

Potential arguments against this:
1) This could make players drop stones in doorways, in order to wedge open doors that they want to keep open.
1a) All items could be pushed out of a doorway to a random adjacent square when the door closes.

2) This weakens ranged combat, as you tend to be closer to enemies when engaging them through doors
2a) This applies equally to players and monsters though - I'm not sure how big of an impact this will have.

This could also be modified to add a penalty to moving through doors (maybe 10 aut?), but I'm not sure that's necessary at this stage.

I'm happy to code this myself - I'm just wondering if it's a good idea or not.

For this message the author Bodrick has received thanks:
chequers

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1667

Joined: Saturday, 11th October 2014, 06:12

Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.

Post Saturday, 29th August 2015, 22:51

Re: Proposal: Automatic Doors

Cigotuvi's doors?
You shall never see my color again.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6432

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Sunday, 30th August 2015, 00:08

Re: Proposal: Automatic Doors

Well, there are reasons for both leaving doors open and for closing them currently.

Currently it is actually largely a good idea to close doors behind you, it reduces your chances of being surprised by wandering critters and reduces noise propagation.
Spoiler: show
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Sunday, 30th August 2015, 00:46

Re: Proposal: Automatic Doors

Siegurt wrote:Well, there are reasons for both leaving doors open and for closing them currently.

Currently it is actually largely a good idea to close doors behind you, it reduces your chances of being surprised by wandering critters and reduces noise propagation.


I prefer to leave doors open, I don't want to spend an extra turn to open a door when I need to retreat upstairs. Especially if there will be another monster behind that closed door.

mps

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 886

Joined: Saturday, 3rd January 2015, 22:34

Post Sunday, 30th August 2015, 01:29

Re: Proposal: Automatic Doors

Significant player nerf, imo. Current doors are quite powerful.
Dungeon Crawling Advice tl;dr: Protect ya neck.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 147

Joined: Sunday, 14th June 2015, 07:19

Post Sunday, 30th August 2015, 05:41

Re: Proposal: Automatic Doors

I might be in favor of this if it means we can code it so arrows won't stop doors from closing anymore, then realize this change is dumb, and change it back, but keep my ability to close the door when I get to the end of a hallway, step into the door tile, and a centaur from the edge of LOS pegs me.

Also
There's also two dedicated commands for opening and closing doors - which I feel is giving more interface value to them than they deserve.


Interface value? It's a pair of keyboard shortcuts. There's literally no interface space being gained by removing this, no alternate input that's going in there. The game doesn't use the whole keyboard anyways. There's a slight problem with that it's not inherently clear that you can close doors with a button, but I suppose letting you do it by viewing them might make it discoverable.

bel

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2184

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Thursday, 3rd September 2015, 15:44

Re: Proposal: Automatic Doors

Interesting proposal. I don't see anything wrong with it, though I don't mind the current situation either. The only problem is stuff on the door prevents it from closing currently, this would make Hypothetical Optimal Play tedious.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57

Location: South Carolina

Post Thursday, 3rd September 2015, 17:57

Re: Proposal: Automatic Doors

This is a really big change. Maybe this kind of space could be introduced as a new terrain type, or even a new plant type, rather than letting it replace doors. At least initially. Lots of vaults would need to be reworked to make sense with these.

Aethrus wrote:The game doesn't use the whole keyboard anyways.

Which keys do you not use, besides the space bar?
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Slime Squisher

Posts: 357

Joined: Saturday, 14th December 2013, 01:35

Post Monday, 21st September 2015, 19:10

Re: Proposal: Automatic Doors

runic doors still function as usual?
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