Spider Stomper
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Remove sources of banishment into Abyss from low-mid levels.
It just makes no sense to throw underdeveloped char in such grinder.
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Spider Stomper
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Tartarus Sorceror
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<halberd> !lm . !ak banished s=xl o=xl
<Sequell> 138 milestones for halberd (!ak banished): 15x 27, 6x 26, 7x 25, 11x 24, 12x 23, 16x 22, 13x 21, 11x 20, 14x 19, 6x 18, 9x 17, 4x 16, 15, 5x 14, 2x 12, 2x 10, 8, 6, 5, 3
<halberd> !lg . !ak abyss s=xl o=xl
<Sequell> 7 games for halberd (!ak abyss): 27, 20, 19, 16, 14, 10, 8
Spider Stomper
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Chicken wrote:The main thing I wish is that when somebody comes near you with a weapon of distortion, the thing would be harder to miss. Like, actually distort the TILES to make a cute little black hole effect around him. It sucks to lose because you just weren't watching the text closely.
Barkeep
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The Manual wrote:From time to time a discussion about Crawl's unfair OOD (out of depth) monsters turns up, like a dragon on the second dungeon level. These are not bugs! Actually, they are part of the randomness design goal. In this case, they also serve as additional motivation: in many situations, the OOD monster can be survived somehow, and the mental bond with the character will then surely grow. OOD monsters also help to keep players on their toes by making shallow, or cleared, levels still not trivial. In a similar vein, early trips to the Abyss are not deficits: there's more than one way out, and successfully escaping is exciting for anyone.
Ziggurat Zagger
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njvack wrote:flash_screen_message is so close to working, and then three Hell Knights come into LOS at once and one of them has a dtrident of disto
Spider Stomper
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Berder wrote:Personally I think the abyss is an exciting and valuable part of the game, especially at low XL.
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onget wrote:Berder wrote:Personally I think the abyss is an exciting and valuable part of the game, especially at low XL.
It simply is an exciting as gambling, not interesting.
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Cocytus Succeeder
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nago wrote:Why remove from low-mid level? Is the only part the Abyss may be an actual danger to a char.
Rather, why don't add something like 500-5k turns every time an high char would unwilling be banished? I mean the effect would be the same, without all the tedium between.
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Sandman25 wrote:nago wrote:Why remove from low-mid level? Is the only part the Abyss may be an actual danger to a char.
Rather, why don't add something like 500-5k turns every time an high char would unwilling be banished? I mean the effect would be the same, without all the tedium between.
There is Berder's statistics in second post, some XL 27 characters do die in Abyss.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Mines Malingerer
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mps wrote:I would go the opposite direction: Rename worms "abyssal worms" and give them distortion branded melee, imo.
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mps wrote:I would go the opposite direction: Rename worms "abyssal worms" and give them distortion branded melee, imo.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Sar wrote:You can't kill them with stones without sling anymore because they regenerate fast now.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm but does no damage.
The worm is moderately wounded.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 23 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm.(damage 2)
The worm is heavily wounded.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 22 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (heavily wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm but does no damage.
The worm is heavily wounded.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 21 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone barely misses the worm.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 20 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (lightly wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm.(damage 3)
The worm is moderately wounded.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 19 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone barely misses the worm.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 18 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm.(damage 3)
The worm is moderately wounded.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 17 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm but does no damage.
The worm is moderately wounded.
Unknown command.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 16 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm.(damage 2)
The worm is moderately wounded.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 15 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm.(damage 2)
The worm is moderately wounded.
Found a stone staircase leading down.
Found 13 stones.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 14 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm.(damage 2)
The worm is moderately wounded.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 13 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm.(damage 3)
The worm is heavily wounded.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 12 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (heavily wounded)
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm but does no damage.
The worm is heavily wounded.
Found a robe and a chain mail.
Throwing (i - inventory. (,) - cycle): f - 11 stones (quivered)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - worm
Aim: a worm (moderately wounded)
Brought monster down to 1 HP.
You throw a stone.
Rolled 0 for 1d0 x2
The stone hits the worm.(damage 2)
You kill the worm!
Ziggurat Zagger
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Dungeon Master
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Location: Lexington, KY, US
Ziggurat Zagger
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Sar wrote:Hu? What was your Throwing?
neil wrote:I think you accidentally pressed "," instead of ".".
Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Sar wrote:Try it with Throwing 0? Most characters will have that and wouldn't want to train Throwing only to kill worms with stones. Unless we actually make those worms send you to Abyss, of course!
Tomb Titivator
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Sandman25 wrote:mps wrote:I would go the opposite direction: Rename worms "abyssal worms" and give them distortion branded melee, imo.
Yes, we should give players a better reason to kite those worms. Those who are not patient enough to kill the worms with stones without sling deserve to die.
Halls Hopper
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Cocytus Succeeder
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Ziggurat Zagger
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byrel wrote:I can't recall the last time I ran away from a popcorn monster with distortion (sonja, etc. not being counted here. I run from her more because of curare.) It's more 'Kill with extreme prejudice.'
Spider Stomper
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Sandman25 wrote:I encountered a monster with distortion in Depths, tried to spam SticksToSnakes but it didn't work so I invoked Apocalypse, it killed most monsters except that one but fortunately it was paralyzed. This probably shows how serious I am when dealing with distortion, don't give the monster a chance if you can.
Ziggurat Zagger
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white_noise wrote:If you are in Depths already then you cleared at least mines, lair and some random lair subbranch (possibly even halls and vaults). This means that you can handle occasional banishment relatively good. But being thrown there from D1-10 (pre-mines/lair) means that you simply don't have tools (skills/equipment) to survive except for sheer luck. This makes whole thing a cruel lottery where you can't possibly win. If you are lucky enough you can manage to not lose, but that's it.
Early banishment (and frankly Abyss itself) adds very little interest to the game but plenty of frustration.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Spider Stomper
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dowan wrote:In nethack there are cockatrices, they are really easy enemies, except once in a while they will hiss at you or you will have taken your gloves/weapon off for some reason, and you instantly die instead of easily killing them.
Compare to the orc with the distortion weapon.
Ziggurat Zagger
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dowan wrote:In nethack there are cockatrices, they are really easy enemies, except once in a while they will hiss at you or you will have taken your gloves/weapon off for some reason, and you instantly die instead of easily killing them.
Vestibule Violator
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dowan wrote:In nethack there are cockatrices, they are really easy enemies, except once in a while they will hiss at you or you will have taken your gloves/weapon off for some reason, and you instantly die instead of easily killing them.
Compare to the orc with the distortion weapon.
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