Hunter weapon choice

[Curio]

Why can't we have a weapon choice for hunters like fighters have?

Say, I want to play Centaur throwing javelins and darts (maybe some needles even) with that +3 aptitude.
Or an orc with a crossbow. Yeah, he have a bad aptitude for that, but I want to xbow some mobs with orc like orc knights do in a dungeon.
It's all about having a choice of weapon for a hunter.
Is that possible?
EDIT: Rouse the idle post!
Also, added a poll to see what is general outlook on such change.

[eith]

i agree, this would be a nice change.

[Curio]

The main problem with this is that crossbows are excellent weapons and it's unlikely anyone will choose bows over them.

Same thing with a Short sword and Falchion for a fighter now.
Maybe not most precise analogy but you are right to some point.

Still, not providing a specific weapon because it's too powerful (granted some other specie have it nonetheless from the start) is wrong in my opinion.

Maybe at least choice between throwing/slings/bows can be implemented (with + crossbows for dwarves and kobolds). That alone would be an improvement

[Curio]

Ah, I see that this was already mentioned before me.
Wiki and Mantis
I wonder why this was not addressed yet.

[KoboldLord]

Crossbow isn't clearly better than bows. In particular, bows have an upgrade path to longbow, whereas crossbows don't, plus bows shoot somewhat faster before you've built up your weapon skill. There's also quite a lot more branded arrows than bolts available early, which is the point in the game where it matters most because later you can take steps to correct the mulch rate. I'm not sure how you'd play a non-Okawaru, non-Trog crossbow hunter without being mostly melee for most of the early- and mid-game.

I'd probably give every hunter the choice between bow, light crossbow, sling, throwing, and blowgun, with blowgun shaved off the end if we absolutely must have an assassin background. If a sufficiently low percentage of players ever choose one of these options, it'll simply be a good one to look at for modification.

[danr]

Ah, I see that this was already mentioned before me.
Wiki and Mantis
I wonder why this was not addressed yet.

Probably just a matter of not being high enough priority.

[Curio]

time have passed and maybe someone will be interested in this topic again

[ledtim]

The main problem with this is that crossbows are excellent weapons and it's unlikely anyone will choose bows over them.

Hardly.
While wizard mode fight simulation for ranged combat has been broken for just about forever, and the latest version I have with working ranged combat sim is 0.32, other than addition of ammo brands, I don't believe the basics of ranged combat has changed much since then. From the combat sim, decently enchanted longbows are superior to decently crossbows in nearly all situations, and especially at higher skill levels. Plain bows catch up fast with crossbows at mid skill levels.

https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/bug_vie ... ug_id=1993
If this long-standing bug with elementalized ammo not doing extra damage is fixed, and with the new nerf to silver and steel ammo brands, I might be tempted to say crossbows are inferior to bows. (Though penetrating brand is still great).

Of course, all this is hard to say for sure without working ranged combat sim for up-to-date versions.

[Curio]

As I see it, choices are all there from the start:
Bow - average damage, possible upgrade to longbow, average ammo generation + early ammo from centaurs. mid-late ammo from elves.
Throwing - small damage from the start, abundant ammo, bonus utility with needles, very good supplement for melee (no need to switch weapons)
Slings - average damage, abundant ammo, also good in late-game as I heard.
Crossbows - high damage, no possible upgrade other than brands/randarts, bad ammo generation and NO monster drops (yaktaurs) until Vault and late-dungeon.
also, stealth bump

[XuaXua]

Yes they DOES.

[Curio]

Yes they DOES.

And this was a reply for what question?

[XuaXua]

Yes they DOES.

And this was a reply for what question?

The poll question.

[Roderic]

The main problem with this is that crossbows are excellent weapons and it's unlikely anyone will choose bows over them.

Aren't arrows more frequent than bolts?

[Curio]

seems equal but without source diving I cant tell for sure

[KoboldLord]

Arrows are more common than bolts as long as centaurs are more common than yaktaurs. Floor-spawned ammunition caches are basically trivial compared to the number of monster archers that bring you ammunition gifts. This is a major advantage to a bow-user, since the part of the game where centaurs are more common than yaktaurs is a substantially more difficult part than others, and an archer character at that point will have fewer alternatives if the ammo supply doesn't hold out than an archer who makes it to the yaktaur bonanza.

Assuming you have a limitless quantity of the various types of ammunition, which really only will ever occur if you go Okawaru or Trog, crossbow bolts have better material brands than arrows do. If you're going Okawaru or Trog, you should definitely go crossbow because the bow's chief advantage is basically irrelevant in the face of ammo gifts, but if you're not going Okawaru or Trog you might want to just go ahead and pick up some magic instead, because magic! I guess you could go archer of Fedhas for the challenge or something, if you want.