Zot Zealot
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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Zot Zealot
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Ziggurat Zagger
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dowan wrote:FR: Remove ghosts!
Ziggurat Zagger
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Slime Squisher
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Shoals Surfer
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Snake Sneak
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dowan wrote:Some sort of sanity check on player ghosts might be enough. That way you preserve the interesting parts, and lose the bad parts. Make sure the level of the ghost is appropriate with the level they died on.
I'd also strip them of their weapon egos, and make them all go normal speed. Naga ghosts are trivial due to slow speed, and centaur and spriggan ghosts can be horrifying. Everyone knows drac ghosts are really mean due to their draining breath, it'd be nice if that could be toned down or removed.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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mps wrote:Anyway, that was good crawl. More crazy ghosts, imo.
Tartarus Sorceror
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mps wrote:While comborobining the other day, I ran into a crazy TeCj player ghost on Lair:8 with ball lightning and orb of destruction (no idea how this guy died on lair:8).
http://lazy-life.ddo.jp:8080/morgue/EnterQ/morgue-EnterQ-20150619-160717.txt wrote:The blast of lightning engulfs the dire elephant.
The dire elephant is heavily wounded.
The blast of lightning engulfs you! You resist.
The blast of lightning engulfs your ball lightning.
Your ball lightning completely resists.
The blast of lightning engulfs your ball lightning.
Your ball lightning completely resists.
Your ball lightning explodes!
The blast of lightning engulfs the dire elephant.
The dire elephant is heavily wounded.
The blast of lightning engulfs you! You resist.
Your ball lightning explodes!
The blast of lightning engulfs the dire elephant.
The dire elephant is severely wounded.
The blast of lightning engulfs you! You resist.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
The dire elephant tramples you!!
You die...
Zot Zealot
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Tomb Titivator
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Rast wrote:mps wrote:While comborobining the other day, I ran into a crazy TeCj player ghost on Lair:8 with ball lightning and orb of destruction (no idea how this guy died on lair:8).
Presumably he blew himself up with ball lightning or ood.
EDIT:http://lazy-life.ddo.jp:8080/morgue/EnterQ/morgue-EnterQ-20150619-160717.txt wrote:The blast of lightning engulfs the dire elephant.
The dire elephant is heavily wounded.
The blast of lightning engulfs you! You resist.
The blast of lightning engulfs your ball lightning.
Your ball lightning completely resists.
The blast of lightning engulfs your ball lightning.
Your ball lightning completely resists.
Your ball lightning explodes!
The blast of lightning engulfs the dire elephant.
The dire elephant is heavily wounded.
The blast of lightning engulfs you! You resist.
Your ball lightning explodes!
The blast of lightning engulfs the dire elephant.
The dire elephant is severely wounded.
The blast of lightning engulfs you! You resist.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
The dire elephant tramples you!!
You die...
Shoals Surfer
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Vestibule Violator
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Blades Runner
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bcadren wrote:The melee ones you can just walk away from, thankfully...though they can still be somewhat nerve-wracking. (ran into a GrBe in a CPA with a Dire Flail on Snake:1 recently) [he died to a shock serpent explosion, I looked it up.] kept me from completing the floor for awhile, because I couldn't hurt him and he could kill me in ~2-3 hits. That game had something like 7 --Be ghosts; multiple in Shoals end.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Sar wrote:I disagree! I died to ghosts (mostly my fault though), and I had experiences where I had to run away/leave floors due to ghosts. For me, it's all part of the game. Dying is a part of the game too. Remember, Crawl isn't supposed to be 100% fair and winnable!
Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Sar wrote:The situation you described is harsh, but it's also a situation where you play the worst race in the game following the worst god in the game and encounter the worst possible spell combination on a ghost that is located in the worst possible position. I wouldn't compare it to D:1 oof, I would compare it to a frail mage encountering a pack of jackals in the open on D:1 and failing to kill them with the starting MP.
Slime Squisher
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Dungeon Master
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Sandman25 wrote:It depends. Some player ghosts can have Petrify/Shatter/Fire Storm on D4 as far as I know. Worse than OoF IMHO, Bolt of Fire/Fireball can't reach edge of LoS.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Lasty wrote:This is a very problematic post. You don't know if what you're asserting is true and you have no evidence that it's possible or has ever happened, but you're still using it to argue for a change that's barely related. D:4 shatter/firestorm/petrify ghosts aren't a problem as far as anyone can tell, but if they were, the fix would be to do something about them specifically rather than to remove all player ghosts; conversely, if player ghosts are a problem, this example fails to illustrate why because it describes a scenario that does not happen and thus does not apply to player ghosts in general.
Blades Runner
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jejorda2 wrote:If there are multiple ghosts, it is because one of those ghosts killed the other players on that level.
Dungeon Master
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Sandman25 wrote:Sorry, you can treat it as my attempt to learn whether it's possible.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Dungeon Master
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savageorange wrote:* 2. When generating a level, however, only one of the ghosts belonging to that level is allowed to generate.
* 3. Whether or not you kill it that game or die to it, that ghost is scrubbed and can never generate again.
Abyss Ambulator
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Lasty wrote:Sandman25 wrote:Sorry, you can treat it as my attempt to learn whether it's possible.
I'm all in favor of learning. I believe there is logic to prevent ridiculously OOD ghosts from placing, but I'm not certain and I'm not sure how it works. I'll update here if I find out.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Sar wrote:The situation you described is harsh, but it's also a situation where you play the worst race in the game following the worst god in the game and encounter the worst possible spell combination on a ghost that is located in the worst possible position. I wouldn't compare it to D:1 oof, I would compare it to a frail mage encountering a pack of jackals in the open on D:1 and failing to kill them with the starting MP.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Rast wrote:Don't forget that this (hypothetical?) situation happens in an early portal vault that doesn't have an exit close to the entrance, which is not typically the case, in my experience.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Lasty wrote:This is a very problematic post. You don't know if what you're asserting is true and you have no evidence that it's possible or has ever happened, but you're still using it to argue for a change that's barely related. D:4 shatter/firestorm/petrify ghosts aren't a problem as far as anyone can tell, but if they were, the fix would be to do something about them specifically rather than to remove all player ghosts; conversely, if player ghosts are a problem, this example fails to illustrate why because it describes a scenario that does not happen and thus does not apply to player ghosts in general.
Lasty wrote:Ghosts are only scrubbed if you win the game without dying on the same floor as the ghost. If you die at the ghost's hand it is definitely not scrubbed; I'm not sure what happens if anything other than the ghost gets credit for killing you on the same floor. When a ghost is loaded, any other player ghosts that were victims of the ghost can be loaded as well. Outside of the special Halloween patch, the most ghosts I've seen on a single floor is 3.
Hopefully someone who's done more work with ghosts can chime in to give more detailed information. wheals, maybe?
Lasty wrote:Sandman25 wrote:It depends. Some player ghosts can have Petrify/Shatter/Fire Storm on D4 as far as I know. Worse than OoF IMHO, Bolt of Fire/Fireball can't reach edge of LoS.
This is a very problematic post. You don't know if what you're asserting is true and you have no evidence that it's possible or has ever happened, but you're still using it to argue for a change that's barely related.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Dungeon Master
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duvessa wrote:Man I know you hate Sandman25 and all, but come on, there is very clear evidence that it has happened:Lasty wrote:Sandman25 wrote:It depends. Some player ghosts can have Petrify/Shatter/Fire Storm on D4 as far as I know. Worse than OoF IMHO, Bolt of Fire/Fireball can't reach edge of LoS.
This is a very problematic post. You don't know if what you're asserting is true and you have no evidence that it's possible or has ever happened, but you're still using it to argue for a change that's barely related.
http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/toma/morgue-toma-20130512-184300.txt
http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.11/prnstrntrng/morgue-prnstrntrng-20121210-012933.txt
Ziggurat Zagger
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