Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1


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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 17:23

Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Nagas are bad until they get constrict, at which point they are tolerable. I am not sure what the design philosophy behind overall balance is supposed to be, but Nagas with constrict at lvl1 would still not be a top tier starting race, mainly due to 1.4 aut move speed. They would be a lot less painful to play though. I'm sure they used to have constrict right away and it got nerfed, and I don't know what that context is for that but I think it's time to re-evaluate this change.

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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 18:30

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Nagas are not bad. I am biased because they are one of my favourite species. Note that they already have a special featuer at level 1: poison spit.

By the way, they used to get constriction at game start, but that was removed later on. I don't think it's crucial either way (the species was alright without constriction altogether, and it'd still be okay with level 1 constriction). The current situation is agreeable, in my opinion, because you will be able to do what monster nagas to do players (constrict), but the situation is different to octopodes who can do it from turn 1 (and certainly need it more).

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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 18:34

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dpeg wrote:Nagas are not bad.
...what races exactly do you think are worse than nagas, other than mummies?

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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 18:45

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

I never found nagas to be bad, even in early game, but I agree that constrict at L1 seems good for them. Early game is already somewhat tough for them. No idea why constrict was changed.

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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 18:47

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

nagas are one of the hardest starts in this game, and this change would affect literally only the start of the game, really it seems like a no brainer to me, but like I said, I still don't understand the design paradigm behind the difficulty curve in this game, so maybe I am missing the mark.

nagas pre-lair are like playing a survival horror game where everything moves faster than you. this would be like playing a survival horror game where everything is faster than you but you have a fire axe.

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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 20:03

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

bel wrote:I never found nagas to be bad, even in early game, but I agree that constrict at L1 seems good for them. Early game is already somewhat tough for them. No idea why constrict was changed.
it was changed to make the early game harder
what confuses me is that octopodes kept XL1 constriction...

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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 20:37

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

It's also simpler. I don't really get why a lot of species differentiation takes so long to arrive, eg Naga constrict, Te/Gr flight.
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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 20:46

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Delayed Te/Gr flight seem to be mostly for flavor since there's rarely much opportunity to make use of flight in the early dungeon.

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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 21:22

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Te move faster while flying, unless that was removed. Would be a huge difference in the early dungeon. It's good that they don't start with flight.

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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 23:05

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Wahaha wrote:Te move faster while flying, unless that was removed. Would be a huge difference in the early dungeon. It's good that they don't start with flight.

Move faster and get bonus EV.

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Post Wednesday, 27th May 2015, 23:44

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

chequers wrote:It's also simpler. I don't really get why a lot of species differentiation takes so long to arrive, eg Naga constrict, Te/Gr flight.

It's a good thing that DD get their rN+ at level 14, otherwise they'd be overpowered and have a very easy start.

More seriously, I'd be in favor of naga constriction at level 1. That was the case in version .10, when I initially fell in love with nagas. It was removed immediately in .11. I still consider nagas to be strong, but losing level 1 constriction was an obvious blow which makes their early game much more difficult. Don't underestimate how much of a buff that is though - nagas were the second most won race in the .10 tournament, behind only minotaurs. Gargoyles didn't exist back then, of course. Now I believe that constriction damage was lowered since .10, so it wouldn't be the same even if constriction was level 1 for nagas, but it's still a huge boost.

Maybe then I'll go about doing greater Naga ;)

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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 06:51

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

pickled_heretic wrote:nagas pre-lair are like playing a survival horror game where everything moves faster than you

I don't see a problem?

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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 13:45

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Wait, wasn't there also some bug with constriction damage back then, which was the real reason nagas were the second most won race.

I find it odd seeing so many people saying nagas are good, when those same people talk about how horrible chei is, and how bad ponderous items are.
Poison spit is not useless, but it's not very good either. Poor accuracy, poor damage, and lots of enemies have rPois. On top of that, you have reduced AC in the early game due to your deformed body, and you are unlikely to have a barding anytime early in the game.

Being able to walk away from fights, and pillar dance, is a huge boost to survival on D1, and nagas don't have that option. Constriction at XL1 would at least smooth out the part of the game where they're most helpless.

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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 13:58

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

If players try to play MiWz as DEWz (training magic and ignoring weapon skill for a while), they will think that Mi is extremely hard species.
If players try to play NaFi as MiFi (equipping the heaviest armour and ignoring stealth skill, they will think that Na is extremely hard species.
Also yes, Na is supposed to be hard species (but it isn't that hard with careful play).

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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 14:11

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dowan wrote:Wait, wasn't there also some bug with constriction damage back then, which was the real reason nagas were the second most won race.

It wasn't a bug, it's just that constriction (both player and monster) was terrifyingly strong when introduced.
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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 14:30

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

I haven't trained earlygame Stealth on my Nagas in a long time. I feel like training stuff that helps with surviving an encounter helps more and Naga base stealth is actually very good. I used to get ~5 levels of Stealth on them but then just stopped for some reason.

Heavy armour is obviously not good early though, unless you find something with huge enchantment, like Dragon King or Maxwell's Coffin.

bel

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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 14:37

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

According to this: Nagas have better stealth factor, so stealth skill does more for them than usual. Also, +5 aptitude for stealth means the first few levels are very cheap. I usually get a few levels at the beginning.

Anyway, Poison Spit is great, +20% hp is great, rPois (adders) and sInv (orc wizards) are great as well. Nagas are very far from helpless in early game. But I don't mind giving them constrict at XL1 anyway.

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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 14:53

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dowan wrote:I find it odd seeing so many people saying nagas are good, when those same people talk about how horrible chei is, and how bad ponderous items are.

Which players? I don't see any of that happening in this thread.

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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 14:58

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Sar wrote:
pickled_heretic wrote:nagas pre-lair are like playing a survival horror game where everything moves faster than you

I don't see a problem?

Me neither. Nagas are intended to be hard early, which is totally fine and not any kind of a reason to make them a bunch easier early.

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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 15:12

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Early game Naga are one of the most purely puzzle-game like situations you can encounter in crawl, which I really appreciate -- it's possibly one of the best ways to learn good positioning, it's difficult but not excessively so, and it is unique.

I'm not opposed to the idea of buffing Naga, personally. But XL1 constriction would, IMO, result in a early game that is less educational, less difficult, and less unique; ie. it's too much of a buff.

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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 21:11

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

I think a better idea would just to make poison spit a little more reliable, or give them another level of tough skin for +1 more AC. I find Nagas to be more background-reliant than other races (AE much worse than the other elementalists because IE and EE have AC buffing spells, and FE has Conjure Flame, Wizard being quite good giving them escape tools, but Conjuror being worse because shorter searing duration and general noisiness.)

A buff primarily for melee nagas that isn't so heavy handed as constriction seems fair.
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Post Thursday, 28th May 2015, 22:02

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Please see below OpFi XL 2 who attacked an adder once (missed by the way) and then passed turns so all damage was done by constriction. Do we really want it to happen with species who has rPois and about 30% more HP?

  Code:
You shout for attention!
You barely miss the adder.
You grab the adder.(damage 0); You constrict the adder. (damage 1)
The adder bites you.
You are poisoned.
The adder poisons you! The adder bites you but does no damage.
Damage: -19%(-4hp)   hp: 81%(17hp)
You constrict the adder. (damage 1)
You feel sick. The adder barely misses you.
Damage: -4%(-1hp)   hp: 77%(16hp)
You constrict the adder. (damage 1)
You feel sick. The adder barely misses you.
Damage: -5%(-1hp)   hp: 72%(15hp)
You constrict the adder. (damage 2)
The adder barely misses you. The adder bites you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You are lethally poisoned!
The adder poisons you!
Huge Dmg: -19%(-4hp) hp: 53%(11hp)
You constrict the adder. (damage 2)
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You feel sick. The adder barely misses you.
Damage: -5%(-1hp)   hp: 48%(10hp)
You constrict the adder. (damage 4)
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You feel sick. The adder misses you.
Damage: -5%(-1hp)   hp: 43%(9hp)
You constrict the adder. (damage 2)
You kill the adder!

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 09:06

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Yeah, I always thought the reason Nagas dont get constrict until much after Octopodes is because they are large body size, constriction is even more powerful for them than for the Op, it would horribly trivialise the early-D ogres and similar threats.
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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 14:57

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Constriction doesn't make enemies do less damage, so I fail to see how it could possibly trivialize early D ogres. It's not like their evasion is what makes them dangerous.
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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 15:09

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dowan, if you kill something faster, it does less damage to you on account of it being dead.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 16:53

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

This is true, but killing something faster != trivializing that thing. If the ogre gets 3 chances to mash you into paste instead of 4, he's still not trivial. But yes, obviously, more killing power on D1 = easier D1. Are nagas really so powerful after they get constriction that they can't have it earlier? Are octopodes too easy?

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 16:57

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Yes, Octopodes are too easy on D1 IMHO. Easier than Hu.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 17:02

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

What would be achieved by making Nagas (and other "hard" races) easier to play? Would it be worth the loss of a wider "difficulty" range?

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 17:57

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Remember, nagas already get constriction. So really it's not making the race easier throughout the game, only during the early part of the game.

Making nagas easier on D1 means more nagas make it to the meat of the game, meaning more people actually play nagas. Having this wide difficulty range is kind of meaningless if the difficult species are just painful to play. However, the slow speed is what makes nagas so painful to play, not the lack of constriction, so this proposal doesn't really fix that issue.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 18:06

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

So adding constriction on D:1 won't make Nagas less hard to play but it will also make them easier to play?

XL1-13 is not really early game. An average Na gets constrict mid-Lair. An average Na has 120-140 HP at that point, decent defences and skills. The "hard part" is mostly over at that point.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 18:16

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dowan wrote:Having this wide difficulty range is kind of meaningless if the difficult species are just painful to play.


I am not sure what you mean as painful here (too easy to die? annoying? unavoidable deaths?). Do you want hard species be as easy as other species during early game and become harder late game?

I really feel we need harder species to keep players interested. Yesterday I spectated a Fo running away from easy monsters and trying to get abyssed in Elf 3 (reading vulnerability and passing turns with Deep Elf Demonologist in kill hole) because "there is so much XP, it feels unfair".
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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 18:18

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

This terminology. What XL is really early game, Sar?
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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 18:20

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Sandman25 wrote:I really feel we need harder species to keep players interested.

I still think my suggestion about an rcfile option for scaling down max hit points (say, 50/75%) would make for a simple yet effective way to make the game harder for those who want that.
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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 18:37

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Sandman25 wrote:
dowan wrote:Having this wide difficulty range is kind of meaningless if the difficult species are just painful to play.


I am not sure what you mean as painful here (too easy to die? annoying? unavoidable deaths?). Do you want hard species be as easy as other species during early game and become harder late game?

I really feel we need harder species to keep players interested. Yesterday I spectated a Fo running away from easy monsters and trying to get abyssed in Elf 3 (reading vulnerability and passing turns with Deep Elf Demonologist in kill hole) because "there is so much XP, it feels unfair".


Let's use felids as an example. They can be painful to play, because due to their low HP and high speed, you spend a lot of time running away and regenerating HPs or MPs. They are a difficult species in some ways, but more importantly, they are unpleasant (for me at least) to play.

An early naga is painful because their optimal play is to spit at any monster you see, then run away, and spit again when possible, until the range is closed, then you just hope you can win the fight, because you can't run away. Not being able to run away can lead to very interesting situations and decisions when you have tools to work with, but early in the game you have no such tools. So having constriction available at level 1 would help get to the interesting part of the naga game (again, this is all just my experience, interesting is obviously subjective).

Having some races less front loaded in difficulty doesn't seem like a bad thing, it creates more interesting differences between races.

If you're at the point where you're purposely doing stupid things because you feel the game is too easy, you've been playing crawl way too much. Some optional way of increasing difficulty might be nice, but if you're at the point where you know the exact right move to do in every situation, there's no way to make crawl harder without also making it more unfair. Although maybe an option to simply reduce incoming XP would make some people happy, and it seems like it'd be easy enough to code.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 18:37

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Sprucery wrote:
Sandman25 wrote:I really feel we need harder species to keep players interested.

I still think my suggestion about an rcfile option for scaling down max hit points (say, 50/75%) would make for a simple yet effective way to make the game harder for those who want that.


Devs don't want difficulty levels.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 18:48

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dowan wrote:Let's use felids as an example. They can be painful to play, because due to their low HP and high speed, you spend a lot of time running away and regenerating HPs or MPs. They are a difficult species in some ways, but more importantly, they are unpleasant (for me at least) to play.


This is easy. If you don't like Fe or feel them painful, don't play them. They are played in a different way than other species and it is expected/supposed.

An early naga is painful because their optimal play is to spit at any monster you see, then run away, and spit again when possible, until the range is closed, then you just hope you can win the fight, because you can't run away. Not being able to run away can lead to very interesting situations and decisions when you have tools to work with, but early in the game you have no such tools. So having constriction available at level 1 would help get to the interesting part of the naga game (again, this is all just my experience, interesting is obviously subjective).


Yes, Na should kite early. But it is not different from other species really who should retreat 10-15 tiles before fighting too.
When is that interesting part of the naga game? Naga is one of the most OP species at high XL. Huge AC/HP + constriction.

Having some races less front loaded in difficulty doesn't seem like a bad thing, it creates more interesting differences between races.


Good. Next logical step is to ask make them harder, not easier. Let Naga spend 3 turns per tile while moving. Less kiting, more difficulty.

If you're at the point where you're purposely doing stupid things because you feel the game is too easy, you've been playing crawl way too much. Some optional way of increasing difficulty might be nice, but if you're at the point where you know the exact right move to do in every situation, there's no way to make crawl harder without also making it more unfair. Although maybe an option to simply reduce incoming XP would make some people happy, and it seems like it'd be easy enough to code.


As I learned with Imp, it is possible to prepare for unfair situations and even have fun with them. It's really pleasant when you survive teleporting in LoS of 5 OoF or when you are attacked by 7 Caustic Shrikes with Qazlal.
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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 18:51

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Pollen_Golem wrote:This terminology. What XL is really early game, Sar?

I think entering Lair is a pretty common feeling on where the "early game" ends.
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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 19:02

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Well Sandman, I think your point of view where making nagas take 3 turns to make a single move makes sense is simply incompatible with my point of view on this subject. I think you've played the game so much you're just totally out of touch with how a typical player experiences it.

The interesting part of the naga game is where you have to use different tactics from a standard game with a normal speed race, but you actually do have other options, like using consumables, casting spells, etc. On D1 your other options are to swing at the guy till he dies, or you die. D1 constriction doesn't change your options of course, but it means you probably get past D1, and get to the point of the game where you have options and choices to make.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 19:09

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dowan wrote:The interesting part of the naga game is where you have to use different tactics from a standard game with a normal speed race, but you actually do have other options, like using consumables, casting spells, etc. On D1 your other options are to swing at the guy till he dies, or you die. D1 constriction doesn't change your options of course, but it means you probably get past D1, and get to the point of the game where you have options and choices to make.


It means that all other species are more painful than Naga because you will spend literally dozens of turns running around pillar waiting for HP/MP to regen. And yes, this is what experienced players do to avoid dying on D1.
If you want to start the game with some consumables to have some options or with more HP to avoid painful deaths, you can use wizard or explore mode, there is nothing wrong with it (I am serious, I switched to learning the game in wizard mode after too many deaths to the same unique).
Also note that one of the goals of crawl is replayability, it is not expected to be played just several times, this is why there are so many species/backgrounds/gods and it means some species should be very hard (at least as long as there are no difficulty settings).

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 19:23

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dowan wrote:On D1 your other options are to swing at the guy till he dies, or you die

Or you can, like, spit, move back, spit, try to approach encounters carefully (Na have high natural stealth factor), etc. Besides, giving Na D:1 constrict would not only ruin D:1 Na play as you pretend. You usually have some consumables on D:2, D:3 etc. already, and deciding when and how to use them is fun.

I am not sure I could call high-level Na "OP", but it certainly feels powerful to me. Movespeed drawback still exists, but it is compensated by escape items being plentiful, by absurd HP pool Nagas have, but the good defences they can obtain. If you want to play a Naga that feels strong since D:1, why not play something like Mi^Chei?

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 19:29

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Those other species can also just say 'no, I won't be fighting that ogre' and walk away. The naga sees the ogre, the ogre sees the naga, and the naga says 'well, I really hope my poison spit kills him before he gets to me'.

I have won the game with nagas, in fact I've won with every species(felids were during the double damage bug though), but that doesn't change the fact that in the very early game, nagas often have no real options once they're noticed by a dangerous foe. All they can do is spit, kite, spit, until the enemy closes and they have to just hope they can kill it. Rpois and extra 20% hp are nice, but they're meaningless when a gnoll is killing your face in on D1 and you can't tab him down, and walking to the nearest stairway down means death.

Honestly, D1 constriction doesn't fix the actual issue here, but it puts a good enough band-aid on it to make it less noticeable. Now you'll probably be able to get to the point of having actual options more often.

If you want to, you can just press '.' 5 times after every move. That'll make the game harder.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 19:35

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Ok, let me try to be more clear. Naga are hard species early game. If some players cannot play with them (don't enjoy spitting, die too often, don't want to train Stealth, don't want to use polearms or whatever), they have about 25 easier species to play.
If some players find Nagas too easy, they don't have an easy solution, they cannot always play Op/Mu because these 2 species are too unique, so the players try to worship Qazlal/Chei/Xom etc. just to make the game harder.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 19:41

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Sar wrote:
dowan wrote:On D1 your other options are to swing at the guy till he dies, or you die

Or you can, like, spit, move back, spit, try to approach encounters carefully (Na have high natural stealth factor), etc.


dowan wrote:An early naga is painful because their optimal play is to spit at any monster you see, then run away, and spit again when possible, until the range is closed, then you just hope you can win the fight, because you can't run away. Not being able to run away can lead to very interesting situations and decisions when you have tools to work with, but early in the game you have no such tools. So having constriction available at level 1 would help get to the interesting part of the naga game (again, this is all just my experience, interesting is obviously subjective).


Yes, that is exactly what I said. So what do you do on D1 when your spit misses both times, and now the gnoll is in melee range? Do you hope your stealth makes him magically forget about you? Do you just walk away and get hit until you die? Or do you just keep meleeing and spitting when possible and hope it dies?

Early game is interesting with most races because you have to pick your fights, and in most cases you actually can pick your fights. Nagas don't have that opportunity, if an enemy notices them, and they're not within 4 tiles or so of a stairway, they're fighting that enemy.

You trade your ability to pick your fights for increased power, similar to worshipping chei. But, you don't actually get the benefit of that increased power right away, although you do get the full drawback. I think more people would play and enjoy the differences of nagas if the very early game weren't so rough, and early constriction would probably accomplish that.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 19:46

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Sandman25 wrote:Ok, let me try to be more clear. Naga are hard species early game. If some players cannot play with them (don't enjoy spitting, die too often, don't want to train Stealth, don't want to use polearms or whatever), they have about 25 easier species to play.
If some players find Nagas too easy, they don't have an easy solution, they cannot always play Op/Mu because these 2 species are too unique, so the players try to worship Qazlal/Chei/Xom etc. just to make the game harder.


That doesn't really matter though, those players will just find nagas too easy too.

And I can get a naga to the point of getting constriction fairly regularly, by shouting from stairways and other such boring tactics. But what's so great about pre XL7 naga play that constriction would ruin? Constriction doesn't make you move faster, it doesn't grant MR, nagas can't constrict multiple enemies at once. All it would do it let them have the reward for giving up their mobility right away.

Sar

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 19:50

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

I don't find earlygame Naga "painful", I find it interesting. With D:1 gnoll stealth can help avoiding it when it doesn't notice you (which is often). And I've killed plenty D:1 gnolls on my Na by spitting. Furthermore, I am not tasonir and I do not restrict myself to playing NaMo. Most backgrounds start with more than empty inventory, so please do not try to pretend otherwise. I might have a spell to cast, or a decent weapon, or a consumable (Fi, Wr, Wn).

Some background: I've played 139 Nagas (won 32) because I enjoy Na mechanics a lot (start really weak, get really strong). I find that Na are pretty unique in how they play and I feel that D:1 constrict would ruin it (yes, constrict is incredibly strong and it was removed from D:1 Na for a reason). I am biased here, obviously - I think that there are other people who might enjoy the way Na difficulty curve works, and I think breaking it would be a loss for the game.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 20:12

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

Eh, well, we're allowed to have different opinions. Yes, some people enjoy the difficulty curve as-is, and as evidenced by the posts in this thread, some people think naga play would be improved with XL1 constriction.

If we want the devs to consider our opinions, then we have to state them, and defend them. I think we've all done that pretty well here.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 20:25

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dowan wrote:But what's so great about pre XL7 naga play that constriction would ruin?


dowan wrote:If we want the devs to consider our opinions, then we have to state them, and defend them. I think we've all done that pretty well here.


I am not sure about it.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 20:36

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

We had a developer shooting down the proposal in pretty clear terms fairly early in this thread. The rest was just us trying to explain our points more thoroughly.

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 20:51

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

dpeg wrote:...I don't think it's crucial either way (the species was alright without constriction altogether, and it'd still be okay with level 1 constriction). The current situation is agreeable, in my opinion, because you will be able to do what monster nagas to do players (constrict), but the situation is different to octopodes who can do it from turn 1 (and certainly need it more).


I don't see that as shooting it down at all. I took it as saying the devs are fairly indifferent on the matter. We did kind of steal the thread from the OP though...

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Post Friday, 29th May 2015, 20:52

Re: Let Nagas Constrict at Level 1

I meant MarvinPA's post.

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