sustain/restore "abilities" -> sustain/restore "attributes"

[Pollen_Golem]

That's it, just a rename. This change would follow how potion renames were done in the past.
Sustain abilities at first sounds like MR+ or like it would let you stand in calcifying clouds without getting petrified.
Restore abilities is too easy to confuse with cancellation, like healing and heal wounds used to be easy to confuse.

[duvessa]

hey marvinpa, can you do me a favour

[xentronium]

Well, 'restore abilities' is gone in favor of XP-based stat regen, which I think is a good change.

IMO 'sustain abilities' could be also be removed, since I doubt people use it very much/at all.

[Sprucery]

IMO 'sustain abilities' could be also be removed, since I doubt people use it very much/at all.

I thought SustAb is currently often a must in Tomb due to the removal of RestAb.

[xentronium]

IMO 'sustain abilities' could be also be removed, since I doubt people use it very much/at all.

I thought SustAb is currently often a must in Tomb due to the removal of RestAb.

Oh, I haven't done tomb since restab was removed, so maybe you're right.

[chequers]

"Sustain Attributes" might be a better name. "Sustain Stats" is not a great name, although you do get the cool inscription of "SuSt".

[dowan]

Yeah, abilities are things you press 'a' to use, dex, int, str, are attributes or stats.

SustainAttributes, but for fun we'll keep the abbreviation SustAb, just like how gargoyles are abbreviated gr.

[mps]

This is a case where you have to call it something and there's little official language to draw from. "Abilities" is presumably as in "ability score" (or simply "ability"), the standard terminology in D&D for STR/DEX/INT/WIS/CON/CHR. Unfortunately, the in-game help uses the terms "stat" and "attributes" in a fairly imprecise way bringing in all kinds of different notions, ranging from AC and SH to STR/DEX/INT to magic resistance (!!!) under the same heading. If there's anything to be done here, it's breaking this section of the manual down and clearly defining terms, with "abilities" or "ability scores" being the official language used to refer to STR/DEX/INT.

[duvessa]

This is a case where you have to call it something and there's little official language to draw from. "Abilities" is presumably as in "ability score" (or simply "ability"), the standard terminology in D&D for STR/DEX/INT/WIS/CON/CHR.

crawl devs are fantasy hipsters committed to eroding melee playstyles and being different just to be different. thsi will never happen

[mps]

Fantasy.... hipsters?

[Pollen_Golem]

little official language to draw from. "Abilities" is presumably as in "ability score" (or simply "ability"), the standard terminology in D&D

I think attribute is a more common and understandable word for str/dex/int. I mean, it could be called sustain/restore "values" or "numbers" but that would be even more misleading. When googling "rpg ability" the first hit is "Attribute (role-playing games) - Wikipedia, the free ..." and it says:

An attribute is a piece of data (a "statistic") that describes .... Some games use different terms to refer to an attribute, such as statistic, (primary) characteristic or ability.

See, it mentions "ability" almost as an afterthought. Furthermore, nowhere else in crawl are attributes ever referred to as abilities or ability scores.

I do appreciate knowing how the naming came about originally.

[dowan]

And most importantly, abilities are already a thing in crawl! You press 'a' to use them, and they can not be drained, restored, or sustained!

SustainStats sounds dumb, but SustainAttributes is fine-ish, and also is pretty close to what it's already called. SustAb could still stand for SUSTainAttriButes.

[mps]

Okay, here's what I should've said instead of tacitly admitting that there's an issue worth addressing here:

No one is actually confused about what the ring or the former potion does or did. No one actually thinks that the use of the word "abilities" in the name of the ring relates to the "abilities" accessible via the 'a' menu because those can't be drained. There is no lack of clarity here to address (notice how when I use the word "clarity" in this sentence, you didn't think "wait, what does this have to do with the amulet that prevents confusion and other similar effects have to do with this?").

[dowan]

Nobody in this topic, sure. When I first started playing crawl I had no idea at all what the hell restore abilities did. I was like "I don't even have any abilities yet, but apparently they will need to be restored sometimes". Because once you say "xyxy means this set of things" you shouldn't then go using xyxy to mean some other unrelated set of things.

For people who've been playing the game for years, it could be called a "ring of spellcasting berserk", and we'd all know what it did, because we'd be used to it. But a new player would be very confused.

It is a relatively minor issue, to be sure. However, it's also got a very minor fix, so I don't see why it shouldn't be changed. Would you be confused as to what "SustainAttributes" would do?

So, yes, at least 1 person was confused as to what the ring did, at the moment when I was confused about a great many things, that is, when I first started playing. And yes, I (quite naturally) assumed that the word 'ability' in the ring and potion meant exactly the 'abilities' accessible via the 'a' menu, because they're both called 'abilities'. I had no idea what could or could not happen to abilities, I just started playing! So with all the necessary complexity of the game, why have some unnecessarily confusing things getting in the way?

[jejorda2]

If you told me sustain abilities/restore abilities regenerated MP faster, I would find that perfectly reasonable.

[Sar]

Fantasy.... hipsters?

Comment section: https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/whisper-farewell-when-you-leave-gimli

[duvessa]

And most importantly, abilities are already a thing in crawl! You press 'a' to use them, and they can not be drained, restored, or sustained!

restore abilities actually restored breath weapons in old versions, it was added as a pun apparently

[Pollen_Golem]

And most importantly, abilities are already a thing in crawl! You press 'a' to use them, and they can not be drained, restored, or sustained!

restore abilities actually restored breath weapons in old versions, it was added as a pun apparently

The pun. My arch nemesis.

[Rast]

And most importantly, abilities are already a thing in crawl! You press 'a' to use them, and they can not be drained, restored, or sustained!

restore abilities actually restored breath weapons in old versions, it was added as a pun apparently

The pun. My arch nemesis.

You're blaming puns for your flat feet?

[chequers]

Patch up:
https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/37

[Pollen_Golem]

Wooo!

[chequers]

BREAKING NEWS: GDD has positive influence on game! https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/19f515785e96