Make Sandblast less of a hassle

[Pereza0]

Sandblast is an awesome spell, but really clunky to use.

I would propose the following:

* Make it use stones directly from the inventory.
* If there are no stones in the inventory it won't work at all.
* Double or even triple the amount of stones Earth Elementalists start with so they have more room to get alternative sources of damage going.

It will be a start a bit more similar to Hunter in the sense ammo conservation is important, but I don't think it would be overly problematic.

Alternatively, leave it as it stands but use quiver instead of wield

EDIT: I just saw that basically exactly this proposal was basically talked about not long ago, my bad

[Wahaha]

I don't find that pressing ' to swap to stones is a hassle. But yeah some people apparently play in some way that makes it a hassle idk.
Edit: removed line that didn't make sense because I didn't fully read the post.

[and into]

I agree with OP. This has come up before; I proposed basically the same thing as the OP, and I'm sure someone else has proposed it before either of us, at some point. The "decision" to tickle a nearby gnoll with stone-less sandblast, rather than killing it, is not an interesting one at all, in my experience, and even if it is only a small hassle, it is still a hassle (mostly because sometimes you forget to swap to stones and waste a couple of turns/mp, which can be bad early on).

Anyway, I think it just might not be a high priority to streamline sandblast, which is fair. I admit it is a minor nuisance.

[edgefigaro]

I stay away from EE because stones and sandblast is annoying.

[Hurkyl]

If people are reluctant to give up the ability to cast the unaugmented version, what about splitting sandblast into two spells: one that is the unaugmented sandblast and one that is the augmented sandblast and consumes stones from your inventory? This would eliminate any GUI awkwardness regarding choosing whether or not to consume stones.

They would both be level 1, and would even share spell levels (like fireball/delayed fireball) so this change doesn't consume extra spell levels.

[bcadren]

Now that chunk wielding was removed...and Tukima's Affects opponents instead of the user's weapon...Sandblast and Sticks to Snakes are the last 'Wield the thing' spells in existence. Both of them are early game spells and both teach the player something they'll never use again in later game. I kind of feel like we need them removed...or we need higher level 'wield the thing' spells; because it's rather weird to have something in the early game that's not used in the later game.

I'm more on the side of having them removed (or at least using ammo from the inventory/quiver [though felids are able to use these spells and have no quivers]); because weapon swapping with different staves and melee weapons is annoying enough in late game on a caster. (I like to go Staff of Power (Start with More MP) -> Enhancer Staff (Boost Spells) -> Staff of Energy (Channel more MP) also keeping around a melee weapon, which may or may not be the same as the enhancer [one character used a Staff of Conj as the enhancer (boost F.Storm, Lehu's, and P.Arrow) and a Staff of Fire (Highest Elemental Skill) as the Melee].)

[spudwalt]

I have to admit, I never use Sticks to Snakes. Apparently it's useful (?), but summoning stuff has never been my preferred playstyle, so I'd much rather just walk up and punch things than spend time footling around with arrows.

As for Sandblast, I don't mind it as much; it's a low-level Earth Magic spell that's still kinda useful for low-AC opponents even after you learn Stone Arrow ('cause Stone Arrow might still be kinda unreliable for a while whereas Sandblast has been good from the get-go). Making it automatically use stones from the quiver or the inventory sounds good.

[Sprucery]

I have to admit, I never use Sticks to Snakes. Apparently it's useful (?)

It's very good, yes.

[mechanicalmaniac]

"Wield the thing" spells worked well in previous editions of Crawl, because they were widespread enough to be a rule and not an exception. Now they're just a footnote. I'd probably like sticks-to-snakes better if clubs were still snakeable. I'd probably like clubs a lot better that way, too.

[duvessa]

bring back bone shards

[tasonir]

I have to admit, I never use Sticks to Snakes. Apparently it's useful (?)

It's very good, yes.

It's actually borderline absurd if you train transmutations a bunch and have a very large stack of arrows. I take down hydras with it. It will convert more than one arrow per cast at higher transmutations - think around 10 transmutations or so. You can swarm hydras with 10 snakes and it won't even take long for it to die.

That said, both sticks to snakes and sandblast should be fine with taking arrows/stones from inventory.

[kuniqs]

Sandblast works differently between rocks and large rocks. How do you solve this problem if wielding rocks is obsolete?
My idea is - always use rocks, unless the player wields a large rock then use a large rock.

[Arrhythmia]

Sandblast works differently between rocks and large rocks. How do you solve this problem if wielding rocks is obsolete?
My idea is - always use rocks, unless the player wields a large rock then use a large rock.

my solution: don't make it work differently who is going to waste a large rock on sandblast when they could just throw it?

furthermore, it is my opinion that ballistomycetes must be destroyed

[bcadren]

my solution: don't make it work differently who is going to waste a large rock on sandblast when they could just throw it?

Curious. I wouldn't consider it unless I was a TrEE^Oka and Oka was giving me a lot of large rocks; since those are pretty rare; but.

Would the 3d20 [Check AC 3 Times] of Large Rock Sandblast EVER beat the base 20 Throw damage of a Large Rock?

[kuniqs]

~8 earth skill vs. twice as much throwing skill to make large rocks as damaging and accurate as sandblast?

[Siegurt]

my solution: don't make it work differently who is going to waste a large rock on sandblast when they could just throw it?

Curious. I wouldn't consider it unless I was a TrEE^Oka and Oka was giving me a lot of large rocks; since those are pretty rare; but.

Would the 3d20 [Check AC 3 Times] of Large Rock Sandblast EVER beat the base 20 Throw damage of a Large Rock?

Sandblast is 3d(4+power/3) where "power" maxes at 50 at around 7-12 skill (depending on int)
Throwing is 1d(20+throwingskill)*(1+(fighting/30))

So with comprable skill (maxing sandblast)

it's 3d20 vs roughly 1d40 (assuming around 10 in throwing in and fighting), average 30 ish damage (pre-ac) for sandblast, vs average 20 damage (pre-ac) for thrown rocks.

AC is tripled against sandblast, so to make the 10 difference in damage, you only need an average of 3.33 damage reduction, or about 7 AC.

So:

Sandblast large rocks can be better than throwing large rocks against lower AC critters given that you're in the earlyish part of the game (I'd estimate through at least the end of the lair) and you're trained for earth damage rather than throwing damage, Sandblast also has a much shorter range, which makes it less generally useful.

Sandblast also always mulches ammo, instead of only sometimes.

In general sandblast is the weaker skill, particularly as you get later into the game, but I think that's expected for a level 1 spell. However it takes longer for thrown large rocks to get to their ultimate damage potential.

I would use sandblast and large rocks as ammo against say, hydras, given that I had significantly in earth magic, and didn't have much throwing. If I had the throwing skill I'd probably use it though, just for the longer range and not-100%-mulching, given how rare large rocks are (Even if sandblast would do more damage)