Why is LRD 5 level only?

[kuniqs]

Compare LDR to Fireball:

+ (3 to 6)d45 max damage vs. 3d37 at max power
+ smite targeting vs. beam targeting
+ trivializes branches: kills skulls & bone dragons in crypt, kills almost everything in Vaults when metal walls are present, makes Elf (especially the end vault) a cakewalk
+ instakills many 'tricky' enemies like statues, golems which have no other weak points
+ doubles as wand of disintegration in a pinch, makes shortcuts in the Labirynth
+ 1 school vs. 2 schools, 2x less experience invested for the same spell power
+ kills things in your LOS and even further, but fireball does it only with Vehumet

= both are 5lv spells
= both ignore EV

- AC is applied thrice vs. AC is applied once
- useless in open areas if you don't have petrify or there are no skeletons around



Lee's rapid deconstruction should be level 6, or 5lvl Earth/Transmutations spell.

To comfortably cast level 6 spells, you need to raise your schools to ~15 level. To cast 5 level spells, ~10 level is needed. Instead of raising a skill from 10 level to 15, you could train another skill from 0 to 10.

The amount of utility you get from LRD is incomparable to other spells of the same level. You can even cast it in plate mail if you have decent str and armor skill. Doing the same with 6 level ones is much harder.

BTW. is there a noticeable difficulty spike, in terms of invested experience and spell success and spell hunger, between 5 and 6 level spells or is it just me?

[duvessa]

There is a spike in spell hunger between level 5 and 6, yes.

[Lyrick]

its usage is more situational and finicky than fireball, level 5 is fine for that. Same level as ignite poison, and I'd say they're in similar spots, though ignite poison is full LOS so it being two schools seems reasonable.

[bel]

I also find LRD to be quite a good spell. However, one thing should be noted. Earth has less enhancers than fire (no rings), and staff of earth/fire or robe of archmagi is quite rare (acquirement is a good way to get it, but only 50% chance). So it is much easier to get fireball to higher power. Also, triple AC reduction is quite a big deal - orc warriors and emperor scorpions for example have very high AC.

Overall, fireball is much easier to use. My own feeling is that lvl 5 for LRD is fine. Early Earth Elementalists really struggle for damage against high AC opponents. Perhaps LRD could be two schools? Not sure, but my feeling is that it is fine the way it is.

[duvessa]

change sandblast, lrd, and shatter to transmutation/earth
nerf shatter by making it damage you if you're in ice form, statue form, or blade hands
give LRD a chance to instantly kill skeletal monsters
allow LRD to be used on all monsters plus mechanical traps
make shatter's range depend on your earth magic skill
make passwall kill you if the rock is too deep

[Sar]

nerf shatter by making it damage you if you're in ice form, statue form, or blade hands

Really? In what version was that?

[Zooty]

change sandblast, lrd, and shatter to transmutation/earth
nerf shatter by making it damage you if you're in ice form, statue form, or blade hands
give LRD a chance to instantly kill skeletal monsters
allow LRD to be used on all monsters plus mechanical traps
make shatter's range depend on your earth magic skill
make passwall kill you if the rock is too deep

Shatter still sounds too strong. How about it destroys potions and other fragile things on the ground?

[kuniqs]

I still think being able to deal 2d20 damage, 3 tiles away from you for 1 mp, minimal skill investment and a common item is a little ridiculous.

[KittenInMyCerealz]

I still think being able to deal 2d20 damage, 3 tiles away from you for 1 mp, minimal skill investment and a common item is a little ridiculous.

I think that this post is ridiculous.

[kuniqs]

I still think being able to deal 2d20 damage, 3 tiles away from you for 1 mp, minimal skill investment and a common item is a little ridiculous.

I think that this post is ridiculous.

Why? Neither throw frost/flame nor freeze have this firepower at 1 level.
Earth magic is crazily powerful for a starting character. I see no reason to start as any kind of fighting class if I can choose earth mage.

[Sar]

And yet IE is better than EE.

[kuniqs]

And yet IE is better than EE.

You win.
But I still stand by my original oppinion

[and into]

The amount of utility you get from LRD is incomparable to other spells of the same level.

Shadow creatures, (arguably) phase shift. Granted, those are not in starting books. But sticky flame, conjure flame, and mephitic cloud all appear in starting books and offer very high value for a lower investment than LRD.

Yes, LRD is very good, and it is also a spell that I find fun, but it is hardly broken. In my experience, the triple AC check makes it rather situational until you have very good spell power (beyond what you need just to cast it reliably). In this sense it "feels" kind of like a weird cross between lightning bolt and fireball.