Ratskin cloak

[Giant Orange Brainbow Dash]

The last few versions of Crawl have seen a lot of bad artefacts getting the boot or receiving major overhauls, and for this I am grateful. How did the ratskin cloak (+1 cloak, rPois, rN+, -1 DEX, -1 INT) survive the culling? This thing strikes me as less exciting than a standard +1 cloak of poison resistance, as the stat costs are minor but still annoying and rN+ is a very underwhelming counterbalance. Has there been any talk of chopping or revamping this one?

[TeshiAlair]

1. Make it a +3 cloak.
2. Give it the property Smelly: makes you smell like an animal. +Stealth in Lair, -Stealth everywhere else.

[Giant Orange Brainbow Dash]

Smelly: makes you smell like an animal. +Stealth in Lair, -Stealth everywhere else.

I do like the notion of unrandom artefacts having unusual and unique traits to make them stand out from just being Rather Nice Random Artefacts, but I'd like them to be a little more distinct or practical than just another negative trait for much of the game. Might as well throw my own idea out there...

Ratform (Evocable ability): "You momentarily become a rat and manage to scurry a short distance, unimpeded by most obstacles." Successfully activating it allows you to choose a space within two tiles of you, much like evoking a reach attack. You immediately move to that space, ignoring monsters, trees, statues, closed doors (but not runed closed doors), and pretty much anything else that isn't a wall, deep water, or lava. I rather like the idea of sneaking through a crack in a door and losing a herd of opposable thumb-less opponents behind me. The only really obnoxious thing about this I see is that perpetually evoking it would be optimal play (why ever move 1 tile while traveling when you can move 2???), so make it a rechargable evoker effect. Having an occasional micro-controlled blink seems like something I'd like to always have on hand.

[Sar]

Makes enemy rats go berserk.

[DDDD]

Ratform (Evocable ability): "You momentarily become a rat and manage to scurry a short distance, unimpeded by most obstacles." Successfully activating it allows you to choose a space within two tiles of you, much like evoking a reach attack. You immediately move to that space, ignoring monsters, trees, statues, closed doors (but not runed closed doors), and pretty much anything else that isn't a wall, deep water, or lava. I rather like the idea of sneaking through a crack in a door and losing a herd of opposable thumb-less opponents behind me. The only really obnoxious thing about this I see is that perpetually evoking it would be optimal play (why ever move 1 tile while traveling when you can move 2???), so make it a rechargable evoker effect. Having an occasional micro-controlled blink seems like something I'd like to always have on hand.

Very funny idea. To balance it, you could be stuck in rat form for a couple of turns.

[duvessa]

there's a buttload of unrands and they almost never get removed, so how about just getting rid of ratskin cloak since it has no distinguishing features whatsoever

also what's the point of these existing:
blowgun of the assassin
"new" captain's cutlass
punk
finisher
trident of the octopus king
bullseye
flaming death (freezing death seems to have been removed)

[Arrhythmia]

flaming death (freezing death seems to have been removed)

It sticky flames enemies. Also the dagger is chilly death, flash freezes enemies, and is still in.

e: okay maybe you're pulling an epic minmayism so you can segue into some long diatribe of "but what's the point of those features existing", but they do have distinguishing features.

[Sar]

Blowgun is no more and octotrident gets +1 slay for every octoking ring.

[johlstei]

I think bullseye is gone too.

[Giant Orange Brainbow Dash]

While I'm normally not the biggest fan of machete-hacking material out of the game, I do think it's kind of a let-down that so many unrands are unexciting. When I find Wyrmbane or the Cloak of the Thief, I'm thrilled, because I've suddenly got something that defines this current run as unique, with a new very powerful tool that's fun to play with. When I find Punk, I think either "Man I wish I had trained Slings" or "Man I wish I didn't already have a better self-enchanted greatsling." A lot of artefacts seem to fall into the category of normal weapons that also grant a little magic resistance, which is useful but boring. I say let the randarts cover all of that territory, and only let an unrand exist if it stands out as extraordinary and rule-breaking in some fun, useful way.

[duvessa]

flaming death (freezing death seems to have been removed)

It sticky flames enemies. Also the dagger is chilly death, flash freezes enemies, and is still in.

yeah my mistake re: chilly death, blowgun, shouldn't have trusted learndb about the blowgun still existing
i didn't know about the sticky flame/flash freeze because there's not really very much to suggest they exist if you don't try using the seemingly-boring weapon

octotrident gets +1 slay for every octoking ring.

is it even possible for this to matter

[basil]

i didn't know about the sticky flame/flash freeze because there's not really very much to suggest they exist if you don't try using the seemingly-boring weapon

Flaming Death: "A scimitar with a mysteriously smoking blade. Occasionally its heat leaks out, covering opponents in magical flame."

Chilly Death: "A dagger made of one huge shard of sapphire. It covers opponents in ice, slowing down their movement somewhat."

[duvessa]

yes that's why I didn't say there was nothing at all to suggest they exist
i definitely didn't read the flaming death description as indicating anything other than that it was a flaming weapon

[njvack]

I think bullseye is gone too.

It is; it kind of sort of got merged with Gong.

[Lyrick]

octotrident gets +1 slay for every octoking ring.

is it even possible for this to matter

Once, I got three rings of the octopus king, but didn't actually find the trident. And I wasn't playing an octopode.

So to answer your question, it almost mattered.

[Sar]

is it even possible for this to matter

http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/runewalsh/morgue-runewalsh-20140817-160343.txt

A +16 trident of venom, man. A +16 trident! (Of venom.)

[jejorda2]

Only 700 Pan and Zig levels to find the set!

[nago]

is it even possible for this to matter

http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/runewalsh/morgue-runewalsh-20140817-160343.txt

A +16 trident of venom, man. A +16 trident! (Of venom.)

Fuck the wyrmbane! And the turncount! That's a real m̶a̶n̶ squid weapon!

[wheals]

The best part is that bullseye was literally removed on duvessa's request (ok, a three-year-old devwiki post by him).

I agree that punk, finisher, and ratskin cloak can probably go. I tried to think of a cool idea for ratskin cloak based on "lesser dragonskin cloak" but it didn't really work. Flaming and chilly should get INSCRIPs so that their effect is immediately obvious. Blowgun and cutlass are pretty marginal, yeah.

And the octotrident is indeed still just a joke weapon, that is the point of it really.

[Sar]

I like the idea of Finisher being a good weapon with a shitty type. I even used it once! It could probably be made better though.

[crate]

Finisher was good and then speed brand got changed, rip.

[Lasty]

I like Finisher existing, and I'd rather spice it up than remove it. Punk definitely isn't necessary, and ratskin cloak either needs to get a lot more interesting or get out. I never got the point of the octoking trident and I'd prefer to either remove it or make it conceivably interesting somehow (reaching distance = number of octo rings?).

[nago]

Probably more close to a gdd proposal than a good one, but how giving finisher a not risible (10-20%) to instantkill living enemies, plus full vamp effect in that case.
Or, as active effect, an AoE (full los or cleaving) that deal heavy damage and vampirize the living creature and exhaust and heavily drain the char.

You know...scythe, Death, ...

[nicolae]

I like Finisher existing, and I'd rather spice it up than remove it. Punk definitely isn't necessary, and ratskin cloak either needs to get a lot more interesting or get out. I never got the point of the octoking trident and I'd prefer to either remove it or make it conceivably interesting somehow (reaching distance = number of octo rings?).

octoking trident has a tentacle on the other end from the trident, extra ring slot, macabre finger style

[jejorda2]

10 rings on a fully equipped Octopode? Should there then be 10 rings of the Octopus King? Like October is the tenth month?

A second amulet slot would be more valuable. But then the thing should probably lose rElec.

[nicolae]

10 rings on a fully equipped Octopode? Should there then be 10 rings of the Octopus King? Like October is the tenth month?

A second amulet slot would be more valuable. But then the thing should probably lose rElec.

make the points of the trident tentacles, three extra ring slots

[XuaXua]

i didn't know about the sticky flame/flash freeze because there's not really very much to suggest they exist if you don't try using the seemingly-boring weapon

Flaming Death: "A scimitar with a mysteriously smoking blade. Occasionally its heat leaks out, covering opponents in magical flame."

Chilly Death: "A dagger made of one huge shard of sapphire. It covers opponents in ice, slowing down their movement somewhat."

Shillelagh.

[grisamentum]

Smelly: makes you smell like an animal. +Stealth in Lair, -Stealth everywhere else.

I do like the notion of unrandom artefacts having unusual and unique traits to make them stand out from just being Rather Nice Random Artefacts, but I'd like them to be a little more distinct or practical than just another negative trait for much of the game. Might as well throw my own idea out there...

My turn!

Ratskin Cloak - a +1 cloak. Every time you kill a rat, it has a (1/current enchantment)% chance of gaining +1 enchantment.

[kroki]

Smelly: makes you smell like an animal. +Stealth in Lair, -Stealth everywhere else.

I do like the notion of unrandom artefacts having unusual and unique traits to make them stand out from just being Rather Nice Random Artefacts, but I'd like them to be a little more distinct or practical than just another negative trait for much of the game. Might as well throw my own idea out there...

My turn!

Ratskin Cloak - a +1 cloak. Every time you kill a rat, it has a (1/current enchantment)% chance of gaining +1 enchantment.

i like this idea, make it work like wyrmbane, expect you need to kill more and higher hd rats and it caps out at +4. it starts out at +1 and there are 3 rat types in the game. sounds reasonable? id also ditch the stat maluses, they dont mean anything and look like shit in the item description

[Greyr]

Ratscumming?

[BobIsDead]

1. Make it a +3 cloak.
2. Give it the property Smelly: makes you smell like an animal. +Stealth in Lair, -Stealth everywhere else.

Heh. My mind went to almost the exact same places as you, though in completely different ways.

I also thought of just improving it slightly. Though, in my mind it would become +2 with rN++, but it's the same basic idea.

My second thought was that it should affect stealth. After all, rats are essentially mice, and mice are known for their quietness. So just slap on an increase to stealth and be done with it.


Though, I sense that I'm in the minority in terms of not expecting unrands to be all that fancy. I see them as more for flavour than anything else. If they're not powerful or are uncompatiable to my build, it's hardly the end of the world.

[PleasingFungus]

there's a buttload of unrands and they almost never get removed, so how about just getting rid of ratskin cloak since it has no distinguishing features whatsoever

also what's the point of these existing:
blowgun of the assassin
"new" captain's cutlass
punk
finisher
trident of the octopus king
bullseye
flaming death (freezing death seems to have been removed)

robe of augmentation
bloodbane

[duvessa]

robe of augmentation and bloodbane are at least strong, so they are about as interesting as all the other generic good item unrandarts: prune, spriggan's knife, zonguldrok, wrath of trog, autumn katana, bow of krishna sharnga, morg, skullcrusher, glaive of the guard, arga, eos, storm bow, doom knight, dragon king, flash, starlight, dyrovepreva, alchemist, bear spirit, ignorance, mask of the dragon, fencer's gloves, gauntlets of war, salamander hide, shield of resistance, zhor, cekugob, four winds, shielding, robustness, shaolin, mage, octopus rings

whereas trident of the octopus king and +5 captain's cutlass, in addition to lacking a silly gimmick, are shit

[nicolae]

I think the captain's cutlass can disarm enemies now.

Re the ratskin cloak, an idea: It's foul and disgusting and creatures are occasionally repulsed by it. Provides an effect similar to warding, in that monsters attacking in melee will occasionally flinch away instead of attacking, but instead of targeted against summoned creatures, it affects wildlife -- i.e. creatures of natural holiness and animal or less intelligence. So, it'll work well in the early dungeon or Lair branches, but afterwards you might as well ditch it.

[duvessa]

ok sorry, i take it back again. captain's cutlass does not lack a silly gimmick

[Shard1697]

I think it's 100% fine for unrands to not have flashy gimmicks.

[KittenInMyCerealz]

I think it's 100% fine for unrands to not have flashy gimmicks.

This
And some of them have some rally nice flavor so it's always sad to see them removed.
One of the things is enjoyed the most as a new player were the flavor text related to items/unrands and unique monsters.

I will always much rather see a unrand generate on the place of normal/randart items, even if that unrand is completely useless.

[Rumbleguts]

The ratskin cloak should spawn friendly spectral rats (and river rats and hell rats) when you take large amounts of damage, perhaps using a formula similar to Dith's fog bleeding.

[milski]

Speaking of artifacts with no unique effects, is the Glaive of Prune still around? It is kinda hilarious the first time you find it, but an artifact that's unique property is "Zin doesn't like it" is kind of silly. Though I guess it was also one of the original LinleyCrawl artifacts.

[jejorda2]

Does it also turn the player's white @ to a blue @?

[milski]

I am a filthy tiles heathen.

[ackack]

I think it's 100% fine for unrands to not have flashy gimmicks.

I agree, but here's the argument against it. If an unrand is merely a good item that could plausibly be generated by other means, then it's not bringing anything new to the table, thus you might as well remove it and let random generation do its thing. This argument clearly makes a lot of sense, but there were plenty of uncomplicatedly good "boring" unrands that I would always be very happy to see (e.g. old Alchemist.) I would typically get more of a kick finding some trusty old friend than getting an unusually good roll on a randart (although I like those too.)

[duvessa]

I find new alchemist more boring than old alchemist.

[Sprucery]

Speaking of artifacts with no unique effects, is the Glaive of Prune still around? It is kinda hilarious the first time you find it, but an artifact that's unique property is "Zin doesn't like it" is kind of silly. Though I guess it was also one of the original LinleyCrawl artifacts.

Heh, I remember the couple of times I found it I didn't dare to use it because I was afraid of turning to a prune.

[Shard1697]

I think it's 100% fine for unrands to not have flashy gimmicks.

I agree, but here's the argument against it. If an unrand is merely a good item that could plausibly be generated by other means, then it's not bringing anything new to the table, thus you might as well remove it and let random generation do its thing. This argument clearly makes a lot of sense, but there were plenty of uncomplicatedly good "boring" unrands that I would always be very happy to see (e.g. old Alchemist.) I would typically get more of a kick finding some trusty old friend than getting an unusually good roll on a randart (although I like those too.)

I consider Ratskin cloak to be one of these, honestly. Obviously it's not super powerful but early on I will always be glad to get both rPois and rN in the same slot.

[Sprucery]

I consider Ratskin cloak to be one of these, honestly. Obviously it's not super powerful but early on I will always be glad to get both rPois and rN in the same slot.

I've never seen the cloak but early on rN is only very marginally useful (draining attacks are rare). I would probably wear it if I didn't have other sources of rPois but would definitely switch to a regular cloak of poison resistance if I found one (and could enchant that to +1).

[kroki]

I consider Ratskin cloak to be one of these, honestly. Obviously it's not super powerful but early on I will always be glad to get both rPois and rN in the same slot.

I've never seen the cloak but early on rN is only very marginally useful (draining attacks are rare). I would probably wear it if I didn't have other sources of rPois but would definitely switch to a regular cloak of poison resistance if I found one (and could enchant that to +1).

if your ev is low the drain can stack very rapidly and it indeed happens. under such cricumstances its good to have a pip or two of rn