Reorder Sif Muna Abilities

[Aethrus]

Sif Muna is a god with useful abilities that can come in especially handy for mid and late-game characters, but there are a couple of factors that make her less appealing to worship for most characters than other God choices, or her magical competitors Vehumet and Kikubaaqudgha.

The other two magic-focused gods offer spells to the player through book or direct memorization almost immediately, and their piety on kill conduct generally means building piety with them faster than Sif Muna's requirement to train casting skills. Characters like Wizards are counter-intuitively less likely to want to choose Sif Muna because they're likely to have enough spellpower for all their book's spells early on and want to diversify other skills, which makes Sif Muna piety gain slow to a crawl. Blaster casters are more comfortable with doubling down on their spell schools, but those characters would still prefer Vehumet for their needs.

As gammafunk would note, Sif Muna works great for squishy summoner types who are able to split their skills into summoning power and Invo without regret, but she's pretty limited for most others.

The big problem in my eyes is that it's not until six stars of piety that Sif Muna will actually start offering new books to the player... and while yes, she can offer you all the spells in the game eventually, it's a much slower process to get ANY spells from her than the other two gods.

At two stars of piety though, she offers the ability to use her abilities to forget spells. It seems backwards to me that this ability shows up so early, considering the player may not have found even one spellbook get. With earlier spellbook access, players wouldn't have to train their spell skills in anticipation of the spells they hope to get from Sif Muna and instead build Piety more from the spells they're getting. Heck, it would even be viable for characters who don't come from magic backgrounds to consider picking her up if they wanted.

Giving earlier book access might be balanced by having books before hitting 6* piety a limited pool of books or spells available? But it could at least let players get over that extremely awkward early hump of getting into Sif Muna.

[dynast]

I dont think early book gifts will encourage non-book starts to worship sif, everything about sif revolves around pure casters and rarely a warrior-mage. When a non-book start worships Veh he knows what he is getting into: offensive spells, plus he gets magic from killing things, which will then help casting more spells. When a non-book start worships sif he can expect anything, including a book of cantrips. For non-book starts, Sif boils down to "you dont have a god until you get a decent book".

[PowerOfKaishin]

I dont think early book gifts will encourage non-book starts to worship sif, everything about sif revolves around pure casters and rarely a warrior-mage. When a non-book start worships Veh he knows what he is getting into: offensive spells, plus he gets magic from killing things, which will then help casting more spells. When a non-book start worships sif he can expect anything, including a book of cantrips. For non-book starts, Sif boils down to "you dont have a god until you get a decent book".

What if Sif started giving out books like he said, but in addition they were weighted based on your skills and not simply improved with higher Spellcasting? To my knowledge that is not currently the case although I may be wrong.

In addition, what if Sif unlocked every magic school (except evocations) for training, so you could have a lot of influence over what spell you got? Gods are supposed to be powerful, but Sif at the moment feels so lackluster until much later in the game.

Also maybe every Sif altar except Temple had some level 1 spellbook on it for the player to learn a spell? That way a non-book start would have means to worship her.

Honestly this would easily fix almost all of Sif's problems while making the god a very, very reasonable choice for getting spells.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

Sif could gift a starter-level book at a low piety breakpoint, perhaps weighted by racial aptitudes, then you don't know what you're getting except that it's good enough to get going; some species with Ar/As/Mo backgrounds could reasonably worship Sif. Is there any justification for Sif delaying gifts until at 6* anyway?

[MainiacJoe]

I like an early starter book gift from Sif. To increase replayability I don't think it ought to be a book-background's start book but rather a smaller artifact book built around a single school. Give this at * and start channeling at **, then as now no more book gifts until 6*.

[CanOfWorms]

Amnesia already got moved back to 4* in exchange for miscast protection being moved to 2*.

[Aethrus]

Amnesia already got moved back to 4* in exchange for miscast protection being moved to 2*.

LearnDB still says otherwise, thanks for the heads up. But that doesn't affect too much still... your average casting background isn't going to be getting miscasts too often from their starting spellbook... or at least, its spells won't have serious miscast effects once they're at an *acceptable* failure rate. It's better, but my point still stands that I think earlier access to spells would not only put Sif Muna more in line with our other spellcasting Gods who grant spells earlier on but make her piety conduct and overall build more manageable for most characters.

[dynast]

What if Sif started giving out books like he said, but in addition they were weighted based on your skills and not simply improved with higher Spellcasting? To my knowledge that is not currently the case although I may be wrong.

In addition, what if Sif unlocked every magic school (except evocations) for training, so you could have a lot of influence over what spell you got? Gods are supposed to be powerful, but Sif at the moment feels so lackluster until much later in the game.

Also maybe every Sif altar except Temple had some level 1 spellbook on it for the player to learn a spell? That way a non-book start would have means to worship her.

Honestly this would easily fix almost all of Sif's problems while making the god a very, very reasonable choice for getting spells.

Its already the case that gifts are weigthed towards what you train, that doesnt change the odds of getting a useless book with a repeated spell or spells you dont have much use for (say, being a summoner and getting book of party tricks).

I like an early starter book gift from Sif. To increase replayability I don't think it ought to be a book-background's start book but rather a smaller artifact book built around a single school. Give this at * and start channeling at **, then as now no more book gifts until 6*.

Sif could gift a starter-level book at a low piety breakpoint, perhaps weighted by racial aptitudes, then you don't know what you're getting except that it's good enough to get going; some species with Ar/As/Mo backgrounds could reasonably worship Sif. Is there any justification for Sif delaying gifts until at 6* anyway?

I fail to see the logic here. You can CHOOSE your background. Why would you make joining a god the equivalent of picking a book background for players who decided not to do it during character creation? I guess the counter argument is that Kiku does that, so, i got nothing.

[MainiacJoe]

Yeah, I think you're right. Let Oka be the god fro book starts that want help branching into melee, Kiku be the god for help branching into spells, and Trog/Sif be the gods that pretty much need a certain kind of start to be useful.

[Sar]

Trog is pretty much Oka but better.

[gammafunk]

As gammafunk would note, Sif Muna works great for squishy summoner types who are able to split their skills into summoning power and Invo without regret, but she's pretty limited for most others.

gammafunk wouldn't note this. In fact he would say that Sif is a stronger god than Vehumet for any book start, and is a great generalist magic god.

The big problem in my eyes is that it's not until six stars of piety that Sif Muna will actually start offering new books to the player... and while yes, she can offer you all the spells in the game eventually, it's a much slower process to get ANY spells from her than the other two gods.

Sif tends to gift you upgrade spells closer to when you actually need an upgrade. The starting book is easily strong enough to clear Lair in the case of every book start. Depending on your skill training, you'll get an upgrade spell anywhere from before lair until shortly afterwords. If you put at least 50% of your xp into magic like many magic-centric characters do, you're very likely to have an upgrade spell at a reasonable time.

[Aethrus]

gammafunk wouldn't note this. In fact he would say that Sif is a stronger god than Vehumet for any book start, and is a great generalist magic god.

Sif tends to gift you upgrade spells closer to when you actually need an upgrade. The starting book is easily strong enough to clear Lair in the case of every book start. Depending on your skill training, you'll get an upgrade spell anywhere from before lair until shortly afterwords. If you put at least 50% of your xp into magic like many magic-centric characters do, you're very likely to have an upgrade spell at a reasonable time.

Didn't mean to imply you agreed with my conclusion, just with the premise that summoners and Sif Muna had strong synergy.

It may be playstyle difference then, but I've usually felt around four or five stars of piety with Sif Muna that I don't want to be spending experience on magic right now, I want to be beefing up my defenses, melee, evo / invo / stealth / what have you. That's why I've felt like an early access perhaps to books with a limited scope would help bridge the gap.

Edit: also, I've felt like once I do get a spellbook with spells I want to pick up, that's when I'm most incentived to focus on spell training, at the point at which I'm no longer trying to build piety, just maintain piety. I just feel like earlier books wouldn't significantly change her balance, but make her more engaging and attractive to play during the Temple-Mid Lair segment of the game.

[crate]

Sif piety gain is kind of problematic anyway, especially since it makes Sif work very differently if you find the altar early compared to late. If you find the altar early, you'll get book gifts before you reach the point where you want to stop training magic skills. If you find the altar late, you probably don't, which then either stalls out your piety gain entirely (so you're left half-godless) or makes you train skills you don't want just to get piety.

Also, "stronger than Vehumet" is not exactly a ringing endorsement, imo.

[prozacelf]

Yeah, I think you're right. Let Oka be the god fro book starts that want help branching into melee, Kiku be the god for help branching into spells, and Trog/Sif be the gods that pretty much need a certain kind of start to be useful.

Just going to point out that Trog is perfectly good with a book start; the book is just worth piety and a free conjured flame. And Trog is still Trog. Sif, on the other hand, is pretty bad if you didn't start with a book or find one very early.

[dpeg]

It happens regularly, but it's pointless: this was a thread about Sif Muna, but it turned into a thread about relative strengths of gods.

Buffing/nerfing things is easy, because there are enough numerical parameters to tweak: slower or faster piety gain, slower or faster piety decay, the piety costs of powers.

So even if everyone agrees that Trog is strong, the strongest god and/or too strong, that shouldn't really have impact on Sif Muna.

[gammafunk]

I would prefer to see Sif gain piety by killing enemies rather than only having the xp going into magic schools contribute, but that's something seen as flavorful by some (including some developers). As for the strength relative to Vehumet not meaning much, well sure, but OP was comparing to Vehumet. Sif is stronger than a lot of other gods, assuming you have spells you want to cast as much as possible. The power level of the god certainly is no problem.

[dpeg]

gammafunk: I understand the flavour bit, but Sif's piety gain mechanic is particularly unfortunate. Often, one can salvage a bit of flavour through the backdoor. Here are some crude ideas, but you're the resident Sif minister, so I hope you'll listen

1) Sif gives piety for spotting monsters (rather than killing them). By and large, this is the same as piety for killing. But the flavour is different.

2) Same as above, with extra piety gain for spotting a new genus (not a new monster type to cut down on message spam). This is supposed to link to the "search for new stuff" flavour.

Even though I think that piety gain should not come from skills, I'd approve if Sif came around with upfront books. While they may not be necessary, I think it's good to increase the potential audience, even if only a tiny bit. (At the very least, there are characters who take the unknown altar.)

[Wahaha]

Could give piety for finding a book. Not a main source of piety but a little bonus, like Trog's book burn piety.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

1) Sif gives piety for spotting monsters (rather than killing them). By and large, this is the same as piety for killing. But the flavour is different.

This ought to be Elyvilon's piety mechanic; it even makes more sense than exploration.

[dynast]

(At the very least, there are characters who take the unknown altar.)

If you get Sif from random altar, you should get a book. That seems only fair for the gamble the player just took, plus, its another reason for people to pray over that shit.

[yesno]

Yeah, I got Sif at a faded altar recently on an assassin and it was awful. My choices were: get Sif wrath, ignore her completely and play most of the game as though atheist, or train spellcasting for piety and hope to find a book soon. Even a not-so-good random book would have given me something to train that I could hopefully make use of while building piety.

I fail to see the logic here. You can CHOOSE your background. Why would you make joining a god the equivalent of picking a book background for players who decided not to do it during character creation? I guess the counter argument is that Kiku does that, so, i got nothing.

I don't think it's really the equivalent of picking a book background, since you still have to train your magic skills, and if you have no skills yet then you don't know what book you'll get either. I'd like it if Sif gifted book on worship or at */** piety or so... I don't see why she couldn't be made more appealing to a wider range of characters. I mean as it is if you find an early Sif altar and you didn't choose a book background you'll pretty much always ignore it, which seems not so good to me.

[dynast]

I fail to see the logic here. You can CHOOSE your background. Why would you make joining a god the equivalent of picking a book background for players who decided not to do it during character creation? I guess the counter argument is that Kiku does that, so, i got nothing.

I don't think it's really the equivalent of picking a book background, since you still have to train your magic skills, and if you have no skills yet then you don't know what book you'll get either. I'd like it if Sif gifted book on worship or at */** piety or so... I don't see why she couldn't be made more appealing to a wider range of characters. I mean as it is if you find an early Sif altar and you didn't choose a book background you'll pretty much always ignore it, which seems not so good to me.

You are right, its worse. I dont think Sif should be made more appealing for the players who want to make bad decisions(yes, choosing to not start with a book, exp and stats towards magic, then worshipping a god of magic is a bad decision, also you dont get to say worshipping Sif on a DEFi is a good decision when you made the bad decision of picking DEFi), because that does not make the god more appealing overall.

The argument of Sif gifts being too late is still a better argument than "appeal" and thats not even a good argument to begin with.

[yesno]

"appeal" isn't an argument, it's just a word. sif with earlier books would be BETTER for a lot of non-book backgrounds, in the way that kiku can be good for non-book backgrounds. that is all that "appeal" means. many gods can be used round out a character and shore up its weaknesses. in particular there are a lot of assassin/artificer/monk/wanderer combos for whom kiku is currently a good choice and similarly would be good candidates for branching into spellcasting with early book gifts from Sif. but it's bad because something something DEFi? i don't know who this person talking about DEFi is, they sure sound wrong, huh

[dynast]

Having a injured arm is better than having a arm cut off, that still doesnt make it good. People are not going to worship Sif on non-book backgrounds because that still is a bad decision overall, or maybe they will, i dont even know anymore at this point. Kiku is good for non-book backgrounds because players know what they are getting into when they worship Kiku, necromancy supports the hybrid transition they are going to make.

[archaeo]

I don't think "give earlier book gifts" would really be a meaningful improvement, since outside the unknown god altar if I'm somebody who doesn't have spells I already have god options for getting them. I want Sif to be fun, not broad, in other words; the criteria is "how fun is Sif with characters that work well with her abilities," not "how many combos can conceivably benefit from Sif worship."

[HardboiledGargoyle]

Backgrounds shouldn't determine your stats. If all backgrounds gave equal stats, it may not be a bad idea at all to worship a Sif that starts gifting books from 1*. First you'd get solid physical skills or some evo with a non-book background, then go Sif and get access to spells almost immediately. This would not be unlike getting other gods' 1* and 2* benefits, but a little more random.

It makes sense why Trog/Oka delay their gifting: you always have access to weapons anyway, and superweapons are great with 0 skill, unlike spells. Veh and Kiku, on the other hand, start gifting early. Sif's gifting is oddball.

[archaeo]

If we already have two gods that gift spells early enough for non-book backgrounds to get into spellcasting, why do we need a third? Why should Sif be more like Veh and Kiku on this, exactly?

[yesno]

because early altars are a thing, and because it wouldn't have a detrimental impact on Sif's usefulness/fun with book backgrounds (they benefit from earlier spell selection also). also as long as unknown altars exist they probably should be taken into consideration...

[dpeg]

archaeo: The idea is not that spellless characters take on Sif Muna at D:3 altars in order to become dedicated casters (barring altars to the unknown god). Rather, if you're a caster, finding another book early on can be huge. Yes, most (perhaps all) book backgrounds can get to Lair on their starting spellbook alone. But having more flexibility in spell selection is always a good thing. So if Sif provided a low/mid level spellbook by **, say, then in my opinion that would increase appeal (somewhat higher strategic flexibility) and flavour. It's not a big deal, and I think it'd be more important to discuss her piety gain.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

because Veh and Kiku are better "on this". Using crap such as "bad god for most backrounds" to distinguish oneself isn't great. You could say, if we already have 20 gods with powerful active abilities, why do we need number 21? The 3 gods are quite different anyway.

IMO sif's current piety gain would work well with earlier gifts; channel energy could move higher up, on the other hand.

[crate]

Giving a book early doesn't really solve the problems with Sif piety. It sometimes (if the book is like a normal Sif gift, not always) does a bit to hide it, but tying piety gain to xp investment really isn't a great idea anyway. And if you stall out after two books, you're just stuck in the same situation as you were before.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

Are Sif piety's ties to XP investment problematic only when you're getting to 6*, or just as problematic after getting to 6*?

[Quazifuji]

Personally, I'm 100% in favor of Sif starting to give books early for a reason that has nothing to do with balance or piety: I think it would make Sif more fun. And fun seems to be what's really at hand here. None of the other arguments seem particularly compelling. In particular, the arguments against it seem to not argue that it would be bad, but merely that it wouldn't completely solve Sif's early game. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, in only counters one argument made in favor of the proposal, not the proposal itself.

So let's talk about what's fun about Sif Muna. Maybe others are different, but personally, if I worship Sif, I do it because I want to be flooded in spell books. I want to have a massive library of spells to choose from and infinite amnesia to shuffle those spells around at will. That's the appeal of Sif to me, that's what make Sif fun. Sure, from a practical standpoint, mana channeling and miscast protection are useful, but they're also boring. I don't take Sif because I want mana channeling and miscast protection. I take Sif because I want spell books. I want lots and lots of spell books. I want every spell in the game. Isn't that what Sif promises? Isn't that what often convinces new players to worhsip Sif on their casters? Sif gives you every spell in the game.

So books are what's exciting about Sif. And what's the most exciting time in the game to find spell books? Early on. The later in the game I find a spell book, the more likely it is to be uninteresting. Finding a nice spellbook in early Dungeon can change the direction I decide to go in with my skills and shape my character. When I see a spellbook on D3, I get excited. Finding a spell book in Vaults usually means picking it up, looking at the spells, and either noting one or two useful spells or just being thoroughly unimpressed and dropping it on the floor. Not so exciting.

So Sif's most exciting feature is spellbooks, and spellbooks are most exciting early game. Yet Sif currently does not give spellbooks early game. Sif's most fun feature is not used in the part of the game where it would be most fun. So change that. Make Sif start giving books earlier. Make it so I get excited when I find D2 Sif on a caster knowing that I'll have a guaranteed 3-4 books by Lair, rather than wondering if it's really worth taking her knowing that I've got a solid chance to getting killed by an Orc Priest or whatever long before she does anything more than give me mana channeling.

TL;DR: Early Sif books would make Sif Muna more fun. They would not make her overpowered. So make Sif Muna give books earlier.

[gammafunk]

Yes, most (perhaps all) book backgrounds can get to Lair on their starting spellbook alone. But having more flexibility in spell selection is always a good thing. So if Sif provided a low/mid level spellbook by **, say, then in my opinion that would increase appeal (somewhat higher strategic flexibility) and flavour

Having more flexibility in spell selection isn't always a good thing, unless by good you mean an increase in the player's power level, in which case it's power creep. Sif already has high appeal for a rather large portion of book backgrounds and is one of the more widely played gods for book backgrounds. I don't think there's a fundamental issue with appeal.

because early altars are a thing, and because it wouldn't have a detrimental impact on Sif's usefulness/fun with book backgrounds (they benefit from earlier spell selection also). also as long as unknown altars exist they probably should be taken into consideration...

No, we shouldn't balance god mechanics around unknown altars. They're just meant to be a "special challenge". Early altars also aren't any particular consideration for a god, aside from possibly the effects of the god's initial ability or abilities being available in early dungeon.

[dynast]

So Sif's most exciting feature is spellbooks

Sif most exciting feature is casting dragon's call...

...forever...

...at 50% fail rate.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

Are Sif piety's ties to XP investment problematic only when you're getting to 6*, or just as problematic after getting to 6*?

Seriously, I'm curious. Is Sif piety gain only an early problem, before you get miscast protection and the first couple of books? You still need to train magic skills if you want to continue receiving gifts.

[crate]

It's a problem all game in that it forces you to play a specific way if you want to keep getting gifts; you have to keep spending xp in magic skills. You can argue about how much of a problem this is, I guess ... if you want Sif to be only for characters that want to do very little other than cast spells then possibly it is not a huge problem. It's also theoretically a problem if you run out of magic skills entirely, though possibly that isn't actually worth worrying about. (For what it's worth, Sif is the only god where you can completely run out of ways to gain piety.)

However, I still don't see any gameplay benefits for tying piety gain to xp investment, while there are some clear problems. This is a case of flavour interfering with gameplay, so it should be changed in following suit with past changes.

[rigrig]

To retain some flavour, maybe only award piety for xp gained from kills involving magic?

deaths to include:
* killed by direct spell damage
* being killed by a (spell)summon
* killed while having any hexed status
* being killed by a hexed monster

[Sar]

You probably don't want to disincentivize killing weaker enemies by pressing Tab. Currently, I can kill stuff like packs of green rats on pretty much any Lair character by simply having decent defences and a decent skill 0 weapon. With your proposal, if I were to follow Sif I'd have to kill them with magic, which is easy, but not very fun.

[edgefigaro]

I would play more sif if there was an earlier spellbook. One earlier spellbook. 2*,3*, 4*. Doesn't really matter. Doesn't even have to be weighted towards my known skills.

I would play it because it is more fun. I want sif to give me a little more fun than what channeling does. A late D -mid L book drop would be great, and can allow for tying the character together.

I expect to play caster starts by leaning heavily on the starting book and branching out into melee as I get the starting spells castable and find equipment. I may change that plan according to what books I find, but I'll assume I'll not find a useful book through lair until it is actually in my inventory. It would be nice if sif let me know I'm getting at least some spells that aren't massive XP sinks sometime around the lair gate. It frees up the character to plan differently, act accordingly, during the early game when decisions matter most. That is fun.

A better piety gain mechanic would be functionally nice (solving the late altar when you have your starting book mostly online problem.) First time seening monsters (or killing uniques!) giving piety is my favorite proposal.

Vehu and Kiku already providing spells early is not a compelling arguments against, IMO. Alternatively, Nor is "I want to know all the spells on this character and that is why we should get earlier books." Not wanting power creep is a compelling argument against.

[dpeg]

To retain some flavour, maybe only award piety for xp gained from kills involving magic?

This is not a good idea: killing method should have no influence on piety gain. Otherwise, you get all sorts of strange and scummy behaviour.

edgefigaro: Yes, I understand. I find Sif Muna too boring to play, so I just never do it. I think an early book would make the god more compelling. (I actually like how Vehumet, Kikubaaqudgha, Sif Muna all provide spells in a different fashion: random, one-off spells; narrow set; large set.) On the other hand, because I never play the god, I have to rely on the assessment of others, and if gammafunk (who is a heavy Sif player) says that an early spellbook is power spiraling a well-balanced god, then that's it.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

Sif Muna likes it when you kill the ignorant. (Piety for slaying living/demonic/undead/holy creatures without any wizard-flag spells.)

If power creep is limited to such a thing as a single god, it is possible to counteract that buff with a nerf elsewhere, like moving mana channel to a higher piety breakpoint in Sif's case.

[svendre]

My biggest issue with Sif is how annoying it is to get the popup window of abilities over and over when channeling mana pressing a, a. I don't know if there is any way around that, but it's much more pleasant to channel mana from a staff.

[crate]

ability_menu = false

[svendre]

ability_menu = false

Awesome.. thanks!

[DocEon]

Count me in on the "early spellbook" camp. Sif strikes me as plenty powerful, but kind of dull. More spell selection earlier in the game seems consistent with the god's flavor. As it stands, I rarely play Sif mostly because the inventory management you have to do with a pile of spellbooks, but an early book might change that.

As for piety gain, I actually don't have too much of a problem with the current XP expenditure mechanic. Swapping to an exploration-based "on seeing a new monster" system also sounds good - probably a little bit better.

[archaeo]

I still don't really understand how an early spellbook would really make Sif that much more exciting. You'd end up with one of three things happening:

1. Sif gives you the "next" book, which you can't use yet because it's D:10 and you're still mastering the spells you started with.
2. Sif gives you an introductory book for another school, which you probably don't have spell levels to memorize, esp. if you get it at 1* and amnesia isn't available until 4*.
3. Sif gives you a trash book that you'll never want or need.

Now, there's also a fourth option that might be true if Sif didn't depend on training magic for piety, which is that it would be a book for a melee bro, but then what? It would still be strictly suboptimal to choose Sif over Veh or Kiku unless you forced Sif to gift a useful and functional book for the first gift, and then you're not really talking about "early spellbook," you're talking about changing the gifting mechanics, which is another thing altogether.

None of this is to say I think Sif is perfectly fun, because that's obviously not true (source: this thread and all previous Sif threads), but I still fail to see why the answer to that lack of fun is "earlier books." It's a harder problem than that, imo.

[dynast]

I guess you cant deny the fact that stumbling into a new book is always exciting, specially if you are worshipping trog.

[crate]

It would still be strictly suboptimal to choose Sif over Veh or Kiku

This is wrong; Sif is not restricted to gifting conjuration-like or necromancy spells.

[dynast]

It would still be strictly suboptimal to choose Sif over Veh or Kiku

This is wrong; Sif is not restricted to gifting conjuration-like or necromancy spells.

It will always be suboptimal for a melee dude(or any non-book start) to worship Sif over Veh or Kiku, since Veh supports the hybrid playstyle to which the player will shift to by giving magic on kills while kiku offers necromancy that also supports hybrids and abilities to go with it while Sif is just a crapshot for charm/hex/transmut/transloc/necro books and abilities that disincentives the player from doing anything other than cast spell and channel magic.
If you really want a god for books you should gozag.