Proposal: Set text range of Portal distance to vault edge

[XuaXua]

I am currently under the impression that the textual "distance" ranges given to the player to help locate a portal entrance are based on the exact pathing distance from player position to the portal entrance position.

Since several sewer portals are behind twisting passages, this creates artificial distance between the player and portal entrance, which may be "distant", but is being relayed as "far away" due to the portal vault "padding" distance. I have, more recently, found myself failing to locate sewer portals, whereas this has not been a problem in the past.

If my impression stated above is correct, I suggest changing the textual "distance" to a measurement from player position to "the closest walkable tile of the portal vault itself". This should have minimal change to most portals, possibly requiring some tiles be filled in, but would make sewer vaults, considered the "beginner" portals which introduce the portal concept, slightly easier to find.

Alternately, add a flag to portal vault maps which allows a creator to choose to either text pathing via the current way, or the above proposed way. This would allow pre-existing vaults that take advantage of walking space (probably an Ossuary or two, or maybe a magical vault) to not need any change. In this way, some maps (eg: the aforementioned sewers portal vaults) can be special-cased.

Alternately (preferably, IMHO), allow a map creator specify the tile position on the vault map (default: portal entrance) from where the distance message can be calculated, defaulting the message to "nearby" when the player is inside the actual portal vault.

[jejorda2]

Can portals messages be changed to read, "You hear the slow rusting of a drain to the southeast?" It works for the blaring wails of alarm traps.
Early on, I usually don't have a scroll of mapping to find a portal entrance.

[Count of Hearts]

Can portals messages be changed to read, "You hear the slow rusting of a drain to the southeast?" It works for the blaring wails of alarm traps.
Early on, I usually don't have a scroll of mapping to find a portal entrance.

Eh, in a way I'd like this just to make finding them easier, but then it kinda takes the whole time-trial aspect for getting to the portal before it disappears away. "Oh look, the portal is that way!".

Besides, with a scroll of magic mapping it can show you exactly where it is, and if you just walk around a bit you can usually puzzle out the direction the portal is in.

On topic, I support this change if this is happening. Usually I don't pay too much attention to portals and just head in the general direction I think they are and hope I find it. Unless it's a bazaar, of course. Then I'm scrambling to find it.

[Hurkyl]

I am currently under the impression that the textual "distance" ranges given to the player to help locate a portal entrance are based on the exact pathing distance from player position to the portal entrance position.

Really? I had thought it was distance as the boring beetle burrows.

[jejorda2]

[quote="Count of Hearts"]it kinda takes the whole time-trial aspect for getting to the portal before it disappears away. /quote]

I understand the point of the timer is "You have to decide if you should enter the portal as you are- there is not time to raise skills to cast a spell or go scum for another resistance or complete a different branch first" as opposed to "Can you get to the entrance before it closes? There isn't time to rest to full HP or kill that thing that is chasing you."

Maybe I'm wrong about the point of the timer.

[XuaXua]

Really? I had thought it was distance as the boring beetle burrows.

We would need this clarified, but I believe it is based on pathing.

[XuaXua]

Maybe I'm wrong about the point of the timer.

How you described it is how I've seen it explained. Truly, it only applies to the later vaults where one might prefer to have a resistance they aren't carrying; there isn't much "prep work" needed for Sewers, though Ossuary can surprise you with a zombie/mummy landing party.

[Aule]

I have to say that in my current game I missed two timed portals almost consecutively because the timers are not long enough to find them, and the only ?mapping I found was the single one read-ided very early. Scorched earth exploration down to D:12, and nothing. Lair:1 was the ice cave, and though I started searching from step 1, I only arrived mere tiles away before it closed. (This was a GhWz having rC+++ and fireball, perfectly prepared for it.) Then, on Lair:3, the Labyrinth, which I still haven't located, having closed the game in disgust when that timer also ran out long before I was close. Extremely aggravating, and I second any suggestion or attempt to make this portal aspect more fair and not reliant upon a single item to make it "useful."

[Sprucery]

In my current game I descended to a new level in Orc and saw a message about a Volcano. I read magic mapping and headed straight to it (it wasn't far). As I walked towards it I realized that there is also an Ice Cave closer by in the same direction (I had missed that message). I went to the Ice Cave first. I cleared it pretty smoothly (to be honest I almost died to a frost giant), but it was a long and windy map. I also stupidly backtracked quite a bit to check out a corner I missed (for nothing).

When I came out, I heard rumbling and realized that the Volcano had closed. Went to check anyway, but it was. Might have made it it I hadn't backtracked in the Ice Cave. I hate it when I miss a portal.

[Sivar]

I think the most frustrating thing is to read ?mapping and then realize that a portion of the vault is clearly visible at the edge of LOS from where you came down the stairs.

I'd support a change to identify the rough direction of the portal, since I think the "take it or leave it" aspect is much more interesting than the part where you randomly pick a direction and hope you guessed right. However, in that case I think the timers should be shortened, since I think deciding whether to rambo through in a last-ditch effort to make the portal and risk dying in the process is fun and compelling. On the other hand, I do kind of like the hot/cold guessing game as well... Another idea might be to make the distance messages much more granular, rewarding players for choosing a better exploration strategy. (But then I'm one of those people who likes Labyrinths, so...)

By the way, XuaXua, it doesn't seem that the pathing distance is used:

  Code:

function TimedMessaging:player_distance2(cm)
  local cx, cy = cm:pos()
  local x, y = you.pos()
  local dx, dy = cx - x, cy - y
  return dx * dx + dy * dy
end

You can probably notice this yourself if you get the sewer vault with the spiral path, since it's actually quite a few moves to get all the way to the portal but you still get "nearby" at the entrance.

Anyway, if nothing else, this should change:

  Code:

      { sqr(30), '$F, a long way away' },
      { sqr(15), 'distant' },

This is spoilery because I don't think most people would estimate "distant" and "a long way away" to be much different. My first few times I wasn't sure if the game was just choosing differently-worded messages for flavor (like the random stuff orc spellcasters do when they choose not to cast a spell) or if there was actually a distinction.

[Turukano]

Really? I had thought it was distance as the boring beetle burrows.

We would need this clarified, but I believe it is based on pathing.

From my own games I suppose it's the absolute distance ("like the boring beetle burrows") as I had "near" portals which were hidden behind walls.

Edit: Alright, Sivar already mentioned the exact formula.

[XuaXua]

I agree with changing the distance descriptions as, to me, "distant" means "a long way away".

"very close by"

"nearby"

"a ways off"

"a long way away"

[jejorda2]

Yes. My strategy for a while was wander around until I get a message, and mentally eliminate a "quadrant" of the level if I got "a long way" or "distant," but keep looking in that area if I got "nearby." Only this week I realized that "distant" means "just beyond LOS:" you are right there!

Since so many mapping and note-taking tasks are automated in crawl, (Bless you, developers!) it would be great if I could see on the map where I have been standing when I hear the portal, and see exactly what range that message refers to.

And why do I have to wait? Why not make an active ability that just brings up the map and makes a colored circle around my location based on how loud the portal sounds right now? If it is loud because I'm near, draw a small circle around me (that must include the portal) and if it's faint because I'm far, draw a large circle. Let me puzzle out what area it is in.

[XuaXua]

Circles don't work in console crawl.

[jejorda2]

Whatever shape is currently implemented for travel exclusions on the map will do nicely in lieu of true circles. I like how orc priests offer Beogh to hill orc players, and portals could add an ability in a similar way.

[Quazifuji]

I definitely thought distant was much farther away than it apparently is, so I'm definitely in favor of changing the wording to make it clearer, if nothing else. But personally, I like the idea of just indicating the direction.

[Siegurt]

Yeah, pretty much the distance meter for portals goes "You are standing on top of it, It's in your LOS radius, It's further away than that"

It would be nice if you could use the "loudness" of the portals to home in on them a little better, it would be more useful than the current state which is pretty much "Wander around until you blunder into it randomly, or use magic mapping"

Direction would be awesome, but forgoing that, more gradiation of further away portals would be nice (So you could actually try to play hot and cold with them) perhaps more frequent noises too.

[XuaXua]

It's not like we can't hear "blaring noises" from a particular direction.