Warning for spells and Trog

[Sandman25]

I joined Trog as AM and I assigned my only spell to a capital letter in order to avoid casting it accidentally. Yet I casted it automatically (muscle memory etc.) as z<Enter>. I believe there should be a confirmation warning something like "It will put you in penance. Confirm casting spell (y/N)".

[Wahaha]

Same for TSO, Zin, etc if that's not fixed yet.

[reaver]

A better solution would probably be to just amnesia any forbidden spells (for Trog, all spells) upon joining a god.

[Quazifuji]

A better solution would probably be to just amnesia any forbidden spells (for Trog, all spells) upon joining a god.

This does affect the case where you join a god who forbids some spells you have, then later abandon them to join a different god who doesn't (most likely case would probably be someone having some poison spells, joining TSO to get the holy brand, then switching to Zin), although even then it would probably be extremely rare that you'd no longer have access to the books those spells came from if you wanted to rememorize them. So the case where this would actually hurt and all is pretty rare, and overall it might be more likely to help (by saving some amnesia scrolls).

[XuaXua]

Warning is better than amnesia; otherwise, (1) what's the point of penance, and (2) you are also removing options from the player.

[Arrhythmia]

(2) you are also removing options from the player.

This isn't ipso facto a bad thing.

[Siegurt]

Also you don't always have amnesia scrolls available (And while you could destroy the book, that prevents you from learning the spell later)

A safe option that doesn't deprive you of the ability to use the spells later would be to rebind 'z' to something so it doesn't cast spells (probably should rebind 'Z' too if you want to be double safe)

[KoboldLord]

The most important game impact this would have is the sort of situation where you're going Trog to fix up a cruddy Nemelex Choice.

There is a legitimate corner case, though, where a late-game TSO conversion might like the option to cast Revivification to not die and just work off the mild penance.

I don't think the benefit of saving amnesia scrolls is worth considering one way or the other. By the point in the game where a conversion makes sense, you can hardly fail to have generated enough amnesia to fix up your spell list however you want, and Trog is the only conduct deity you might want to convert to if you started with a spellbook that would violate that conduct.

[Siegurt]

Well, I had thought more for the case where you started with a book, used some of the low level spells and took trog at a late temple, so you have 3-4 spells (perhaps you memorized some of those, not thinking about taking trog or even particularly training for them) at that point you *might* have 1-2 amnesia scrolls, you might have 0.

Maybe 1 time in 10 you have enough to forget your whole spell list on joining trog (And unless you forget the whole spell list, amnesia doesn't prevent you from accidentally casting a spell at all)

Preserving amnesia scrolls for the future is certainly not a consideration (even if you plan on switching to TSO or something for extended) but *having* them right now *is*

A warning would be great, but redefining your keyboard's Z key would not cost you any resources at all.

[reaver]

My only concern for the "amnesia spells on joining a god" is a player could join a good god for the amnesia and then change to a different god.

Something like A Tm joining Zin to wipe Beastly Appendage etc, and then immediately joining their actual choice of Dith or whatever. Or possibly a Venom Mage of Fedhas (no longer using most of their poison spells) about to do Extended switching to TSO before switching to Jiyva or Nemelex. (Trying to make examples does make this seem like a pathological case, especially since ?amnesia is pretty plentiful anyway)

I can't see a problem for implementing this for Trog, I think preventing Trogites from learning spells would be more elegant than having penance for casting a spells, training spell skills, or memorizing spells.

[XuaXua]

I've always liked the idea of having had that one "emergency spell" memorized, joining Trog, and never using it except in that once instance where it was life-saving, then getting surprise-ganked by Trog during penance. It's not like joining Trog drains all the experience that you've put into your spell skills prior to joining.

That's my pro-warning / anti-amnesia argument.

[njvack]

Something like A Tm joining Zin to wipe Beastly Appendage etc, and then immediately joining their actual choice of Dith or whatever. Or possibly a Venom Mage of Fedhas (no longer using most of their poison spells) about to do Extended switching to TSO before switching to Jiyva or Nemelex. (Trying to make examples does make this seem like a pathological case, especially since ?amnesia is pretty plentiful anyway)

... between ?Amnesia and the books you can shred (that's still a thing, right?) yeah, that would be a pretty pathological edge case.

[crate]

Crawl is fine with letting you do other things that put you in penance--it tries to give warnings, but it doesn't make the actions impossible--why should spells be different? The problem here is that z<enter> casts the previously-cast spell, and that doesn't update when you join a god. (And with Trog, of course, there's no way to clear the previously-cast-spell without getting penance.) I would suggest just clearing the previously-cast-spell data upon joining a god, or if you want you can clear it just upon joining Trog.

If you're going to make casting forbidden spells impossible instead of merely penance, then that makes me wonder why crawl would let you do things like attack your allies under Oka.

I think it's better to just fix the actual problem suggested here. Amnesia'ing forbidden spells seems worse to me and also, as pointed out, abusable. (Just because they're convoluted scenarios doesn't make them any worse from a design standpoint.)

[Sandman25]

I would suggest just clearing the previously-cast-spell data upon joining a god, or if you want you can clear it just upon joining Trog.

A warning for Trog (also for necro spells and good gods) still should be present IMHO.

[XuaXua]

why crawl would let you do things like attack your allies under Oka.

I thought that was removed.

[PleasingFungus]

I thought that was removed.

He no longer gets mad when your allies die, but he still doesn't like it when you attack them.

[MrPlanck]

I joined Trog as AM and I assigned my only spell to a capital letter in order to avoid casting it accidentally. Yet I casted it automatically (muscle memory etc.) as z<Enter>. I believe there should be a confirmation warning something like "It will put you in penance. Confirm casting spell (y/N)".

Happened to me as well, first real encounter after worshipping Trog was a centaur. I hadn't remapped my spell hotkeys (usually do when converting to Trog, just forgot) and hit a spell hotkey straight away. Sigh, such a disappointing end to as near a gimme victory as one could hope for in sudden death tournament.

[Sprucery]

He no longer gets mad when your allies die, but he still doesn't like it when you attack them.

I learned the hard way that if you read a scroll of immolation and then summon allies, Okawaru will blame you if an ally dies from the chain of explosions.