Walls in killer bee vaults

[tedric]

They look like honeycomb, but they shatter like rock, as I just found out via LRD. I know previous versions had a special "wax" wall type for the Hive. Could it be resurrected for increased flavor of these vaults? ("Yum," said Pooh.) Is there good reason not to?

[duvessa]

Good reason not to: the same reason wax was removed in the first place: it was utterly pointless.
If a vault other than pan_disco_hall is actually recolouring walls then wow that's a terrible vault and needs to be changed

[wheals]

Well, it might them a little less spoily (and less of a reverse autoexplore trap, in that if you autoexplore past them you'll never see that they're yellow and that you should dig them out and get some loot)...

[khalil]

Wait, you can get loot by digging in that vault full of bees? Why did no-one tell me of this?

[Psiweapon]

Wait, you can get loot by digging in that vault full of bees? Why did no-one tell me of this?

Exactly my thoughts.

[XuaXua]

Wait, you can get loot by digging in that vault full of bees? Why did no-one tell me of this?

Exactly my thoughts.

Used to be that way with Hive branch. Thought it went away when secret doors were abolished.

[Sandman25]

Probably it should be replaced with runed door, it would help to those who use autoexplore.

[duvessa]

Well, it might them a little less spoily (and less of a reverse autoexplore trap, in that if you autoexplore past them you'll never see that they're yellow and that you should dig them out and get some loot)...

Holy shit you mean the bee vault you have to dig is still in the game what the fuck why?

[Skrybe]

Wait, you can get loot by digging in that vault full of bees? Why did no-one tell me of this?

I'm assuming wheals is talking about hive_lemuel, which is just a big solid block of honeycomb walls without any bees around it. It's really obvious that you should dig.

[Hirsch I]

Wait, you can get loot by digging in that vault full of bees? Why did no-one tell me of this?

I'm assuming wheals is talking about hive_lemuel, which is just a big solid block of honeycomb walls without any bees around it. It's really obvious that you should dig.

no it is not! it is just a piece of wall in the middle of nowhere, you dont know you have to dig it unless you read it somewhere. this is awful.

[reaver]

Wait, you can get loot by digging in that vault full of bees? Why did no-one tell me of this?

I'm assuming wheals is talking about hive_lemuel, which is just a big solid block of honeycomb walls without any bees around it. It's really obvious that you should dig.

no it is not! it is just a piece of wall in the middle of nowhere, you dont know you have to dig it unless you read it somewhere. this is awful.

The vault has glass now.

[Sandman25]

no it is not! it is just a piece of wall in the middle of nowhere, you dont know you have to dig it unless you read it somewhere. this is awful.

Similar thing that bothers me is Pan - some levels have a room full of monsters and the only way inside is to dig a wall. Unfortunately there are also levels without any room inside but you cannot differentiate them from the previous case since they look identical from outside (at least for players who are not spoiled experts). Actually I didn't know about those rooms and monsters before I got into Pan with Ashenzari. Probably it was ok when we had Dig spell and could spam it on every suspicious wall but now it's rather stupid to use a limited resource when you can just enter another Pan level instead.

[Siegurt]

no it is not! it is just a piece of wall in the middle of nowhere, you dont know you have to dig it unless you read it somewhere. this is awful.

The vault has glass now.

FWIW I always thought it was pretty obvious, but then honeycomb walls are the only yellow ones in the dungeon, and I am personally not likely to autoexplore past it and not notice they were yellow (plus who *doesn't* think a weird circular thing of rock with no entrances is suspicious)

But on the other hand I've played a lot of games where "secret finding" was a thing, so I have an inherent suspicion of that sort of situation.

Yes, it's a "one time puzzle" which isn't what crawl is about, so this is a good change (at least to keep crawl in line with it's own development philosophy) but saying "It's terrible no-one would ever know about it unless you were spoiled" is a bit of a stretch.

[nicolae]

In a similar vein, I think it might be time to retire this vault of mine. It was created soon after the secret door removal, to see if there was a way to have secret areas whose existence could perhaps be deduced from the level layout, such that an sufficiently puzzle-minded player could find the secret area without spoilers, based on nearby clues -- in this case, the four giant arrows all pointing at a diggable box. I don't know how many players actually deduced that on their own, though, since there's not really anywhere else in the game that rewards the player for interpreting the level geometry as shapes, and in any case it's one of those "one-time puzzle" things.

I do like the shape of the giant arrows, so perhaps the center box could have glass added (my personal aesthetic preference would be replacing the rock in the center with transparent rock and leaving the stone corners). But I don't know if the vault as it is currently really fits Crawl design anymore.

[le_nerd]

@nicolae: heh, once upon a time I actually found that vault and was impressed with its design. Nice work. Unfortunately it made me paranoid for hidden features, and I spent many turns digging uselessly around.

Since we have the topic of bee-vaults right now, whats up with the full-level depth-vault with bees crammed into the edges? Their presence seems kinda really unmotivated and unnecessary. (dont know the name of the vault, its one with a moat made of water, a giant rectangular room, and between the room and one and a half side there is a beehive just two or three blocks deep).

[Sar]

They used to be bumblebees. RIP bumblebees.

FR: replace them with caustic wasps!!!

[nicolae]

@nicolae: heh, once upon a time I actually found that vault and was impressed with its design. Nice work. Unfortunately it made me paranoid for hidden features, and I spent many turns digging uselessly around.

oh god I'm a monster

[njvack]

oh god I'm a monster

Well, "monster" might be putting it too strongly. Maybe, um... well...

ok so I guess monster