Limit ammo brands by ammo type (Further)

[Siegurt]

I think it's really annoying to manage your inventory with 7 different brands for the ammo you're using. (inspired by a conversation here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13946)
I think if each type of ammo was limited to only a subset of the missile brands (at least for normal generation purposes), managing the different types of ammo would be easier, and the type of ammo you were using would have some strategic impact on your game.

[crate]

you mean like what already happens?

(dispersal, penetration, silver, exploding are limited already)

[duvessa]

steel, returning, flame, and frost are too

[Siegurt]

Currently:

  Code:

Arrows can be one of:
SPMSL_FLAME,
SPMSL_FROST,
SPMSL_POISONED,
SPMSL_DISPERSAL,
SPMSL_NORMAL,

Bolts can be one of:
SPMSL_FLAME,
SPMSL_FROST,
SPMSL_POISONED,
SPMSL_PENETRATION,
SPMSL_SILVER,
SPMSL_STEEL,
SPMSL_NORMAL,

Bullets can be one of:

SPMSL_FLAME,
SPMSL_FROST,
SPMSL_POISONED,
SPMSL_STEEL,
SPMSL_SILVER,
SPMSL_EXPLODING,
SPMSL_NORMAL,

Javelins can be one of:

SPMSL_RETURNING,
SPMSL_PENETRATION,
SPMSL_POISONED,
SPMSL_STEEL,
SPMSL_SILVER,
SPMSL_NORMAL,

Tomahawks can be one of:

SPMSL_POISONED,
SPMSL_SILVER,
SPMSL_STEEL,
SPMSL_DISPERSAL,
SPMSL_RETURNING,
SPMSL_NORMAL


You'll note that flame/frost can appear on all the launched types, poison can appear on all types, silver/steel can appear on everything except arrows, dispersal is specific to arrows and tomahawks, peircing is specific to bolts/javelins, and exploding is specific to bullets.

What' I'm suggesting is that *all* the brands be limited to one to two types of ammo (except "normal" ammo) leaving each ammo type with 2-3 brands possible on top of 'normal' ammo.

Rather than a complete detraction from the existing system, I'm just suggesting we go further with it. So just as an example something like this:

  Code:

Arrows can be one of:
SPMSL_FLAME,
SPMSL_POISONED,
SPMSL_DISPERSAL,
SPMSL_NORMAL,

Bolts can be one of:
SPMSL_FROST,
SPMSL_PENETRATION,
SPMSL_STEEL,
SPMSL_NORMAL,

Bullets can be one of:

SPMSL_FLAME,
SPMSL_FROST,
SPMSL_EXPLODING,
SPMSL_NORMAL,

Javelins can be one of:

SPMSL_RETURNING,
SPMSL_PENETRATION,
SPMSL_SILVER,
SPMSL_NORMAL,

Tomahawks can be one of:

SPMSL_POISONED,
SPMSL_DISPERSAL,
SPMSL_RETURNING,
SPMSL_NORMAL


[XuaXua]

you mean like what already happens?

(dispersal, penetration, silver, exploding are limited already)

OT: for some reason I read this as runes, and thought "Man, what branch do I traverse to get the exploding rune?"

[tasonir]

I love this suggestion because carrying different ammo types severely limits your inventory space, and 90% of the time I never bother to use half the various stacks anyways. I'd make a minor modification that bullets should retain the steel brand, and lose one of flaming/frost (I'd even be fine with them losing both!). On a seperate matter, are exploding bullets still garbage? I'm not sure if ranged reform improved them or not, but at least the exploding bullets I remember would also be a good thing to cut entirely.

[and into]

I don't think this goes far enough. I'd suggest the following:

1.) All ammo brands stack with all launcher brands.

2.) Limit ammo types to the following:

Arrows:
Normal
Dispersal

Bolts:
Normal
Steel

Slings:
Normal
Silver

Javelins:
Normal
Returning
Penetration

(Javelins get three because they don't require a launcher.)

EDIT
Tomahawks:
Normal
Returning
Poison


3.) Nessos always generates with a flaming longbow and dispersal arrows.

[Arrhythmia]

I don't think this goes far enough. I'd suggest the following:

1.) All ammo brands stack with all launcher brands.

2.) Limit ammo types to the following:

Arrows:
Normal
Dispersal

Bolts:
Normal
Steel

Slings:
Normal
Silver

Javelins:
Normal
Returning
Penetration

(Javelins get three because they don't require a launcher.)

3.) Nessos always generates with a flaming longbow and dispersal arrows.

Tomahawks get diddly squat?

[KittenInMyCerealz]

I'd be fine with poisoned projectiles (with the exception of needles) being gone altogether.
And the "returning"-brand isn't all that interesting either.

i would make
arrows have "flame" and "dispersal"
bolts have "penetration", "steel" and "frost"
javelins have "steel" and "penetration"
tomahawks have "steel" and "silver" or "returning"
bullets have "steel", "flame" and "exploding"

[1010011010]

Bolts:
Normal
Steel

Slings:
Normal
Silver

Steel is boring.
Give Bolts Silver and slings exploding.

[and into]

Tomahawks get diddly squat?

Fixed!

Steel is boring.
Give Bolts Silver and slings exploding.

Silver isn't super interesting either IMO but that would be fine too.

[njvack]

3.) Nessos always generates with a flaming longbow and dispersal arrows.

Nessos really should shoot poisoned arrows. Lore-wise, it'd probably be saner for him to shoot AF_STRONG_POISON arrows than flaming poisoned arrows, but whatevs.

Anyhow, I think a unique can shoot stuff no one else can and that's fine.

[Siegurt]

Well, I wouldn't like to see flame/frost ammunition disappear completely, personally.

[Quazifuji]

I don't think it makes sense for both launchers of frost/flame and ammo of frost/flame to exist, especially because I don't find the interaction entirely intuitive. The fact that velocity is currently the best launcher brand, even though it does less damage than freezing/flaming, because it stacks with elemental ammo, while elemental brands don't, is awkward to me, and I don't find it very interesting from a gameplay standpoint either. Given the choice between removing elemental launchers and removing elemental ammo, I'd be in favor of removing elemental ammo for the reason given in this thread - reducing inventory clutter.

It's kind of odd that the one type of ammo that doesn't have a launcher also doesn't have elemental ammo.

[tasonir]

Flame/Frost would still exist under and_into's suggestion, as far as I'm understanding it, because you'd have flaming/freezing launchers. It just wouldn't clog your inventory. You might want to carry 2-3 different launchers, but I think that's a good system and something people tend to do now anyways. I'd still like to see steel bullets, because slings are weak and having all the raw damage increases they can get really helps, but if you want to emphasize slings as low damage, that might further distinguish them.

I'd support that system, just do not give nessos dispersal ammo please Offbrand ammo shops are a thing, Nessos can still generate flaming (or poison) arrows, they would just be a unique drop in the same way nessos is a unique mob. That or you can just special case him to have normal arrows and he magically double brands them.