The Tavern

A blowgun that resembles a retort, belongs to the same fellow with the hat.

Needles fired by the blowgun have a 100% mulch rate, but leave clouds of their effect on every tile they pass through.

How balanced or unbalanced would this be? What other bonuses or penalties could this item have?

Curare clouds sound absurd, but otherwise I don't really see an issue with this. It's a tad overpowered, sure, but if the clouds dissipate quickly and aren't irresistible (for things like sleep, confusion, etc.) it wouldn't break the game or anything.

I'd make it a +4 or +5 blowgun with a fancy name rather than creating an entirely different class of weapon, but the thing is: do we really need another blowgun unrandart in crawl? Do people use blowguns that much for things that aren't curare (or killing orb spiders with poison needles)?

What would this add to the game? Other than 6 new cloud types to keep track of. There are multiple ways for players to get functionally unlimited poison clouds already.

I think it'd be more interesting to have it be a dagger that can have any of the effects of a needle type on attack.

Like most other GDD posts destined for the grave, "it seemed like a fun idea." I'd considered that multiple new clouds would be a pain; it could instead pull from rarer cloud types like "mutagenic" or "miasma" but we're beginning to reach a bit, both in terms of concept and usage.

It sounds like a pretty fun item and if clouds were to work based on something unrelated to skill I could see this thing seeing use on a good chunk of characters. I also believe that given the existing rates of needle generation this would have negligible real impact in the game balance other than opening up some possibilities for pretty much everybody at a pretty conservative scale.
I don't understand the question about what it would add to the game since the answer is obvious and common to all unrands.
I believe the only clouds that'd need to be added would be para, frenzy and sleep (having curare create miasma clouds is just fine other than by theme, and even then it's not a huge problem) and regardless since there is no other suggested use for these clouds I fail to see why their existence would be inherently bad. Such an angle was not observed as an issue regarding the rod of clouds after all.

Right now the only evokable that makes only clouds is the rod that can do freezing cloud and the rod that can do mephitic cloud/poison cloud. I think it would be cool if it operated like the mephitic cloud spell except leaves a 3x3 cloud that matches the type of needle used

Meph has an awkward cloud-placing system that I think would be unneeded here, just a straight line would also allow for much more comfortable targeting.

Would it be too much to give it penetration?

That's how I've been picturing it all along so doubt it.

I don't like having so many different cloud types for the same reason I don't like having so many different monsters, it's pointless and makes the game harder to learn.

Certainly comparing elements of the game that have a player exposure level as high as monsters is fine, but somehow I don't think a single unrand is one such element or that the way it would work is non-obvious enough to carry any appreciable burden of knowledge.
Of course Crawl has a history of locating and stripping single parts of complex features that can be reused elsewhere (a most eco-friendly approach to game design some may say) and there is no reason to think this wouldn't happen again. I suppose one could claim the potential burden of knowledge this particular proposal carries is thus larger than it may initially seem to be, but I believe that idea can be weighted and measured on its own should it ever surface and indeed is in no way reason to stomp this particular proposal now.

dck wrote:It sounds like a pretty fun item and if clouds were to work based on something unrelated to skill I could see this thing seeing use on a good chunk of characters. I also believe that given the existing rates of needle generation this would have negligible real impact in the game balance other than opening up some possibilities for pretty much everybody at a pretty conservative scale.
I don't understand the question about what it would add to the game since the answer is obvious and common to all unrands.
I believe the only clouds that'd need to be added would be para, frenzy and sleep (having curare create miasma clouds is just fine other than by theme, and even then it's not a huge problem) and regardless since there is no other suggested use for these clouds I fail to see why their existence would be inherently bad. Such an angle was not observed as an issue regarding the rod of clouds after all.

I'm not used to seeing such friendly and agreeable responses from you dck, I like it.

In any case, I completely agree with you. Its a really cool idea and I would LOVE to see it implemented.

If this were to go in, I'd greatly enjoy all the players who complain about how they tried out this unrandart blowgun, stepped forward so they could stab their paralyzed foe, and then got paralyzed and died because they stepped in their own cloud.

More mundanely, poison needles are reasonably common and a poison-vulnerable monster won't avoid the next poison cloud in line if you shoot them from an orthogonal. Each needle would be about as lethal as the Poisonous Cloud spell in a corridor, only it wouldn't require the use of a corridor.

Sticks of poison clouds and freezing clouds and even a mutation that gives poison cloud beams have been available for quite a while now without it really being a problem.
If someone were stupid enough to walk into the paracloud then sure I'd greatly enjoy that as well.

The Tavern

unrandart: the Retort of the Alchemist

unrandart: the Retort of the Alchemist

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unrandart: the Retort of the Alchemist

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