Diversifying Conjurations


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Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 15:02

Diversifying Conjurations

Conjurations is the school of hitting things with projectiles. This is boring, and thus bad. But IIRC the flavor is creating something from nothing, which is infinitely more diverse. I think keeping conjurations focused on damage is fine, but the ways of causing damage with it could be more diverse.

How about some spells that create temporary weapons in your hands? This would be especially awesome for reavers. The weapon type could depend on your highest weapon skill so you would always get something you could reasonably attack with (no super slow weapons at low skill, no axes for a sword user). Extra effects would depend on the spell, with weapon pluses and duration depending on spellpower (possibly with a pluses cap of spell level). Handedness could either depend on the spell or on wether you're wearing a shield. Some suggestions (coming up with names not limited to a single weapon type is hard, so the spell names suck):
Warpshard (lvl 3 Conj/Tloc): creates a reaching weapon, possibly with range up to three depending on spell power
Augmentation (lvl 4 Conj/Charms): creates an unbranded 1h weapon that boosts all your stats by +5
Icy Reaper (lvl 6 Conj/Ice): up to 1.5h frost branded weapon with Sword of Cerebov style ice resistance reduction on hit
Tukima's Fabrication (lvl 6 Conj/Charms): creates a randomly branded weapon that can be evoked for Tukima's Dance
Purging Flame (lvl 7 Conj/Fire): 2h holy wrath branded weapon that can be destroyed for a cleansing flame blast (or maybe a blast of fire). Also explodes when time runs out. Explosion doesn't damage wielder.
Boneblade (lvl 8 Conj/Nec): creates a temporary 2h vampiric weapon (no extra hunger on wielding), rneg, 3 random bonuses (like an artifact)

I am aware that this is similar to branding spells, but unlike those these wouldn't become useless when you find a decent branded (or artifact) weapon, making interesting highlevel spells possible. Having an alternative brand or some nifty effect that enhances your other tactics available without spending an inventory slot and carrying weight on it could be nice. And while it would make finding a good weapon a lot easier (because you can just conjure one on demand) Conjurers are traditionally not even looking for anything but an elemental staff or a short blade to train fighting with. Also to those who think this would be overpowered: it isn't very different from Blade Hands, just not limited to unarmed combat and raw superdamage.

Other ideas how to make Conjurations more interesting are of course also welcome.

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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 18:30

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

Conjuration/Charms - HADOUKEN:
1. Allows the caster to shoot a ball of energy from his bare hands.
2. Lasts for several turns.
3. The energy balls are shot by pressing 'f', and they temporarily replace any quivered ammunitions.

:)
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 19:21

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

Air Magic - applies to any spell related to air / electric element
Conjurations - applies to any spell which creates and manipulates a material from nothing
Charms - applies to any spell which augments/enhances an existing ability of the self.
Earth Magic - applies to any spell related to stone / metal element.
Evocations - applies to magic-containing devices (IMHO should eventually apply to scrolls and be used to initiate non-spellcasters)
Fire Magic - applies to any spell related to fire / heat.
Hexes - applies to any spell which augments/enhances a target.
Ice Magic - applies to any spell related to water / cold.
Invocations - applies to the gods (IMHO should not be considered a spell school)
Necromancy - applies to any spell related to death and demons.
Poison Magic - applies to... venom, I guess.
Summonings - applies to any spell which summons and binds a creature from nothing.
Translocations - applies to any spell which alters space
Transmutations - applies to any spell which changes a target into something different.

Conjurations is like Summoning, but for non-living material. It only the fault of the game that said non-living material is only able to be used for the purposes of combat.

CONCEPTUALLY ELEMENTAL
Air Magic - applies to any spell related to air / electric element
Earth Magic - applies to any spell related to stone / metal element.
Fire Magic - applies to any spell related to fire / heat.
Ice Magic - applies to any spell related to water / cold.
Necromancy - applies to any spell related to death and demons.
Poison Magic - applies to... venom, I guess.

SOMEWHAT NON-SPELL
Evocations - applies to magic-containing devices (IMHO should eventually apply to scrolls and be used to initiate non-spellcasters)
Invocations - applies to the gods (IMHO should not be considered a spell school)

CREATION
Conjurations - applies to any spell which creates and manipulates a material from nothing
Summonings - applies to any spell which summons and binds a creature from nothing.

APPLICATION
Charms - applies to any spell which augments/enhances an existing ability of the self.
Hexes - applies to any spell which augments/enhances a target.
Transmutations - applies to any spell which changes a target into something different.

SPATIAL
Translocations - applies to any spell which transports a target
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 19:43

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

Out of curiosity, is there a reason that poison magic is separate from transmutations? I could see them (in a more symmetrical spell school system) being consolidated into some sort of "Life" magic, Transmut representing some sort of re-functioning of a thing or material, while traditional "Poison" magic is *mal*functioning of a thing or material.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 20:05

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

Why do we want to buff conjurations again? Either new conjurations are clearly inferior to the easiest alternatives, or they will constitute a massive buff to conjurations utility. "Interesting" is not the same as "super-awesome, overpowered, and does everything you could possibly want it to do".

Conjurations might not be one of the quirky skills that people like to call cool, but it occupies a valuable niche as the basic combat ability of most casters. Indeed, conjurations as it currently exists actually reins in casters somewhat because their direct damage abilities are dual-skill, meaning they pay twice as much xp to get that terrific attack power. Conjurations are still strong enough in spite of this to make any buff nearly inconceivable, even if there was a meritorious argument for it.

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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 20:41

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

Some magic schools are very one dimensional, others have a broader use. This is perfectly good. Conjuration doesn't need any utility spell.
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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 20:52

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

ieattime20 wrote:Out of curiosity, is there a reason that poison magic is separate from transmutations? I could see them (in a more symmetrical spell school system) being consolidated into some sort of "Life" magic, Transmut representing some sort of re-functioning of a thing or material, while traditional "Poison" magic is *mal*functioning of a thing or material.


I can't answer this. (Maybe there's a game-play or balancing reason. I suspect it's just inertia that would keep the schools from melding.)

But I will say that I feel that there are too many skills in general. And certainly too many magic skills. My beliefs on this are largely aesthetic. I just have the impression that zillions of skills correlate with poor design. That said, Crawl is the best-designed RL ever, so my impression may be wrong.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 21:05

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

What are you talking about? Transmutation is about converting one thing into another thing, or changing the fundamental state of a thing (doesn't have to be living). It has nothing to do with poisons.
You might want to check this when talking about spell schools.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 21:41

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

Right, I understand. Take what I said as more of a suggestion for consolidation, mebbe? I was just thinking that if you had something to contrast with "necromantic" magic, i.e. something involving "change" rather than the stasis of the undead, flavor-wise, a poison is basically just a kind of mis-function of the body. Since it includes things like MCloud (which changes the fundamental state of a thing mentally as sure as Ice Form gives you frost attacks and cold resistance/poison resistance), it makes sense to me, at least, for the idea of the kind of symmetry you get for the other spell schools.

What is now in Transmutation is about adding positive qualities to things, dynamically. Poison "adds" negative qualities (like being confused or poisoned), but they're both still layers. Necromancy seems to be about reversion.

Further, it adds some depth to spells like Necromutation, which as a stable conversion from Life to Death and back again would still involve that hypothetical new Transmutation school.

Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 21:51

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

Folks, we will not change a magical school on a whim. Last time we felt a school was lacking, we removed it. But Divination spells had a number of very specific downsided. I don't see anything wrong with Conjurations apart a dislike that it's so simple. (I believe it is no coincidence that the school of attack skills is as simple to grasp as a skill of attacking with some kind of weapon.) As was mentioned above, from a purely balancing point of view, the presence of Conjurations means that attack spells are that much more expensive in xp.

We really need that guideline on Feature Proposals. :)
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 21:57

Re: Diversifying Conjurations

OFFTOPIC

1) Poison Magic - would this be where plant magic might go if spells were created that affected foliage?

2) Summonings - the page galehar refers states that summons are essentially translocations of existing creatures... wouldn't that make it translocation then? :-)
"Be aware that a lot of people on this forum, such as mageykun and XuaXua, have a habit of making things up." - minmay a.k.a. duvessa
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