Game Design History Question re:Identify

[Aule]

Just a simple question about this aspect of the game's design.

I am quite new to Crawl. I first downloaded and played 0.13 locally several months ago, then played 0.14 on webtiles, and am now playing trunk on the same. I am completely in the dark about the evolution of this current version of the game.

My question is: why is there no identify spell? I'm imagining that there was, once, long ago, since all the roguelikes that inspired it had one, but that it was removed for certain reasons. It is those reasons I seek. But even if my first assumption is incorrect (as it so often is), and identify has never been a spell in this game, then what is the reason for it not being so? Surely, it has been suggested at least once, then, and turned down for certain reasons that I'd also be interested in reading. Any links to prior discussions would be appreciated, if anyone remembers anything specific.

My google fu is fine, but trying to search for threads on this is seemingly fruitless, given the ubiquity of the possible keywords.

Thanks.

[One-Eyed Jack]

There used to be a divination school of magic which was removed for being stupid and encouraging boring tactics

An identify spell would add essentially nothing to the game and is also redundant with scrolls

[KoboldLord]

There was a whole divination skill back in the olden days, plus evocable items that mimicked some of the divinations. All that divination was wildly overpowered, in that a character with good divination magic could simply ignore and avoid everything that would be marginally troublesome. In exchange for removal of most divination effects, many of the reasons that you wanted divination were also culled out over time. Odds are that within a couple versions the scroll of identify itself will also pass into history, and the item identification minigame along with it.

[Leafsnail]

It's worth noting that Ashenzari includes several reworked divinations spells.

[Kate]

Here's the old blog posts from when divinations were removed.

[Aule]

Here's the old blog posts from when divinations were removed.

That whole blog will be good reading. Thanks.

And thanks to all for the replies. Much appreciated!

[TeshiAlair]

I do think the ID minigame does have some value in the case of scrolls/potions because it increases combat tension, at least early on. Whether luck-based tension is a good thing is another question, but the time cost of dying in early game is low, though streakers probably loathe it.

I also think randarts are special enough to deserve a little mystery to them.

[savageorange]

I do think the ID minigame does have some value in the case of scrolls/potions because it increases combat tension, at least early on. Whether luck-based tension is a good thing is another question, but the time cost of dying in early game is low, though streakers probably loathe it.

I also think randarts are special enough to deserve a little mystery to them.

For those things, I can imagine we might go for Brogue-style auto-id (item is IDed after N turns pass in your possession), with N being randomized.

[Sar]

It works in Brogue because Brogue has a pretty tight food clock.

[savageorange]

It works in Brogue because Brogue has a pretty tight food clock.

Well, if you have an alternative, by all means propose it (Do note though that in Brogue, N is not randomized, which is why I took care to specify that N is randomized -- it would encourage scummy behaviour otherwise). I agree with TeshiAlair's sentiment that scroll, potion, and randart ID is interesting, and wanted to discuss how we could preserve that interest if scroll of ID was removed.

[Hirsch I]

we could use the solution for most problems recently: tie identification with exp gain.

[Patashu]

It works in Brogue because Brogue has a pretty tight food clock.

In particular, roguelikes with tight clocks let you do a lot of things that are 'scummy' in roguelikes without them, because suddenly they're a tradeoff of a valuable resource (For example, infinitely regeneratable levels in Sil aren't scummy because you are forced to confront Morgoth eventually, and your time in terms of gaining exp and finding loot will be better spent on as deep a floor as possible anyway)

[basil]

It works in Brogue because Brogue has a pretty tight food clock.

(For example, infinitely regeneratable levels in Sil aren't scummy because you are forced to confront Morgoth eventually, and your time in terms of gaining exp and finding loot will be better spent on as deep a floor as possible anyway)

Sil's floors are sort of really scummy, especially if you're going for three Silmarils.

[Patashu]

It works in Brogue because Brogue has a pretty tight food clock.

(For example, infinitely regeneratable levels in Sil aren't scummy because you are forced to confront Morgoth eventually, and your time in terms of gaining exp and finding loot will be better spent on as deep a floor as possible anyway)

Sil's floors are sort of really scummy, especially if you're going for three Silmarils.

Yeah, it is still a bit scummy. It used to be better in that taking the stairs cost turns from your turn clock. But it got replaced with the chance of being a false floor if you take stairs too often in a row.