Unnamed Sea God

[Tollymain]

The depths of the sea are a dark, cold place. They share an affinity in this matter with even the driest subterranean places. The god of the sea has sent envoys of their will to many of these places; but every one sent to the dungeon so far has not returned.

Conducts
- Likes killing of non-aquatic creatures.
- Especially likes drowning kills.
- Likes exploration (flavored as "acting as an envoy of the sea").


Abilities given are in large part independent of actual presence of water. Powers are generally more thematic than literal.

(0*)
- Passive: @ can move normally and pick up items in deep water.

(1*)
- Passive: @ gains tidal aura (to be used in other abilities).
- Passive: Enemies in aura have a random chance of being dragged to a space that is equally as close or closer to @.
- Passive: Spaces in aura have a random chance of becoming a temporary square of shallow water, scaling slightly with piety.

(2*)
- Passive: Aura grows.
- Passive: Enemies in aura cannot move or blink to spaces farther away from @.
- Invocation: Whirlpool. All enemies in aura are dragged closer to @, number of spaces determined by Invocations skill. Cheap piety cost.

(3*)
- Passive: Aura grows.
- Passive: Melee attacks have a chance (scaling with piety) of dealing additional drowning damage.
- Invocation: Rusting Brine. All enemies with weapons and/or armour in aura are given corrosion-style debuff, strength of debuff determined by Invocations skill. Piety cost.

(4*)
- Passive: Aura grows.
- Invocation: Watery Grave. For duration of effect, enemies in aura have a chance of spawning friendly drowned souls on death. Number of souls spawned possibly determined by invocations skill (is multiple spawns per death at high invocations skill reasonable or horrendously overpowered? honestly unsure of the math). Piety cost.

(5*)
- Passive: Aura grows.
- Invocation: Slippery Current. For duration of effect, @ gains buff that boosts move speed (and EV?) and allows passage through enemies unhindered, trading places with them as though they were allies. Temporarily dispels tidal aura. Piety Cost.

(6*)
- Passive: Aura grows.
- Invocation: Crushing Depths. For duration of effect, all things in aura (including @? perhaps lesser strength) are slowed and silenced (comedy option: and given rF/rHellfire), all clouds in aura are suppressed, and sight range is reduced to aura size.

(7*)
- Invocation: Release the Kraken.

---

If I get this into the game, I imagine it will be with some of the abilities trimmed out. There's rather a lot of them. Suggestions for worshipper titles and better ability names are welcome, as is any other feedback. If you must, you can suggest names for the actual god, but I'd prefer to take the time-honored tradition of mashing the keyboard and making something workable out of the results.

What do I need to learn in order to write the code for this god?

[Lasty]

If you don't already know git and C++ (or at least something similar) you'll have to get at least basic familiarity with those. If you do know those, I'd recommend just jumping in and seeing how far you can get. Keep in mind that creating a god is both a lot of work and also not a guarantee that the god will be added to Crawl.

That said, I think the design needs work. If you're a skilled programmer you can probably have this testable within a week, and you can find some of the issues experimentally, but here's what jumps out at me:

* I think it's good that you made the powers less dependent on presence of water, since the alternative tends to promote scummy behavior. Unfortunately, your aura does generate shallow water, which means it's beneficial to kite enemies into it to make them falter on attacks.
* The god particularly appreciates a type of kill you can only perform using a passive ability of the god that is applied randomly to melee attacks. This means that as your piety scales up, you'll gain piety more quickly, since you'll start being able to get these drowning kills. Also, you'll need to use melee attacks to do it.
* Many of the abilities center on drawing enemies closer to you, but the god doesn't give any defensive powers. It's not clear that that's a bonus overall, since some monsters you'd rather keep far away. Overall, the god doesn't appear to grant much in the way of particularly desirable powers, though that depends . . . Crushing Depths might be good, but it's also a combination of Metabolic Englaciation and Silence, and the melee damage boost isn't quantified.
* Piety only goes up to 6*, and the 6* level doesn't have built-in support for an active power the way the other five stars do.

[Tollymain]

wasn't aware that 6* doesn't have support for a power. 7* is a joke, sorry for the confusion :V

[tedric]

wasn't aware that 6* doesn't have support for a power. 7* is a joke, sorry for the confusion :V

but the best thing about this proposal is the invokable kraken

[Tollymain]

honestly considering how best to structure a kraken power

[dck]

he gives you the defensive power of having shallow water around you in which enemies fight and an active power that screws with their offense and defense
slippery current is the kind of ability that is just silly and I think fits crawl deities well
this isn't a bad proposal even if it does have some awful stuff, although looking at it again it's kind of like dang without the stealth and better flavor
but then dang is built around sstep so I guess it doesn't matter

[patheticliltramp]

I kind of like this proposal for a sea god, it seems different enough and like a good deal of thought went into it at least - a God who removes the water penalty is a cool idea and it seems that a player using this God is kind of inheriting the skills of shoals-type enemies.

Yeah, lots of powers though. I like rusting brine and slippery current would be a really unique panic button that reminds me of Trident from Eternal Champions. Watery Grave is great flavour, but yeah probably a little overpowered.

Now I know the kraken power is a joke, but it got me thinking what if the kraken power could give you two tentacles that act kind of like spectral weapons, but damage to either one deals a quarter damage back to you? And with increased piety/invo, you can reduce that percentage down? Or maybe more invo means more tentacles...

[Leafsnail]

I actually quite like the idea of the tidal pull. It has clear benefits and drawbacks for a melee character. That said, I agree with Lasty that the god's other abilities may not be enough to make up for the difficulties it gives you in terms of escaping, particularly at 1 and 2 stars of piety.

Slippery Current does sound cool, and I think it could possibly do with kicking in earlier to make up for the problems associated with the tidal ability.

[cerebovssquire]

Watery Grave is great flavour, but yeah probably a little overpowered.

Watery Grave could be adjusted if it turns out to be too strong (e.g. via not guaranteeing one drowned soul per kill, giving a piety cost per spawned and not up front, limiting total number of drowned souls) if it is overpowered. Also, consider how strong some other 4* powers are (this includes stuff like brothers in arms and slouch). I think that if the ability is fundamentally problematic, it's because of overlap with death channel, not power.

Not that this is a big concern, but spawning multiple souls per kill might seem a little strange thematically, given that you'd expect a single being to have one soul.

[dck]

unless it's a big pile of goo

[Tollymain]

I think that if the ability is fundamentally problematic, it's because of overlap with death channel, not power.

to be clear, these are not spectral monsters. they're drowned souls, the things that sirens summon. they're fairly frail creatures that only exist long enough to supply something with a single hit of irresistable damage and tear themselves apart in the process. the ability mechanism is similar to death channel, but the result is fairly different (not much meatshield potential, no pet-herding, no real use beyond the immediate fight)

[Tollymain]

Given what I've heard already, I've revised the concept a bit.

The depths of the sea are a dark, cold place. They share an affinity in this matter with even the driest subterranean places. The god of the sea has sent envoys of their will to many of these places; but every one sent to the dungeon so far has not returned.

Conducts
- Likes killing of non-aquatic creatures.
- Especially likes drowning kills.
- Likes exploration (flavored as "acting as an envoy of the sea").


Abilities given are in large part independent of actual presence of water. Powers are generally more thematic than literal.

(0*)
- Passive: @ can move normally and pick up items in deep water.

(1*)
- Passive: @ gains tidal aura (to be used in other abilities).
- Passive: Enemies in aura have a random chance (scaling with piety) of being dragged to a space that is equally as close or closer to @. Enemies in aura cannot move or blink to spaces farther away from @.
- Invocation: Whirlpool. All enemies in aura are dragged closer to @, number of spaces determined by Invocations skill. Cheap piety cost.

(2*)
- Passive: Aura grows.
- Invocation: Rusting Brine. All enemies with weapons and/or armour in aura are given corrosion-style debuff, strength of debuff determined by Invocations skill. Piety cost.

(3*)
- Passive: Aura grows.
- Invocation: Watery Grave. For duration of effect, attacks have drowning damage. Enemies in aura have a chance of spawning friendly drowned souls on death. Number of souls spawned possibly determined by invocations skill (is multiple spawns per death at high invocations skill reasonable or horrendously overpowered? honestly unsure of the math). Piety cost.

(4*)
- Passive: Aura grows.
- Invocation: Slippery Current. For duration of effect, @ gains buff that boosts move speed and EV and allows passage through enemies unhindered, trading places with them as though they were allies. Tidal aura is deactivated during this effect. Piety Cost.

(5*)
- Passive: Aura grows.
- Invocation: Kraken's Deep. For duration of effect, all things in aura (including @? perhaps lesser strength) are slowed and silenced (comedy option: and given rF/rHellfire), all clouds in aura are suppressed, and sight range is reduced to aura size. Undetermined kraken aspect to ability.. Expensive piety cost.

(6*)
- Passive: Aura grows.

I am going to have to dig up the code for halo and penumbra and see what makes it tick. I suspect it's actually got a more granular growth rate than *s.

Also, I'm not sure if RB, WG, and KD should be combinable or not. I imagine if they are combinable people will toss up all three in bad situations. Maybe just make it one invokable ability that upgrades with higher piety? That might be a bit unorthodox.

[and into]

It's been a while since we had an intriguing god proposal in GDD, so it was good to see this.

A few ideas:

As pointed out before, my worry about Watery Grave is that it seems to overlap with death channel but also with lots of other invocations that summon things. A very dramatic "summon the kraken" ability could feel cool and unique, but I think the "summon drowned souls" ability could be dropped without losing a lot.

Some of the aspects of slippery current and watery (or kraken) depth could be combined into one ability, with a "summon kraken" ability as an ultimate high piety cost invocation. That's what I'd go for, although alternatively, you could keep slippery current and watery depth, and have the latter spawn some random kraken tentacles in water tiles that attack nearby enemies.

I'm not sure about having a passive ability that constantly and unpredictably changes the position of enemies in your aura... Having that effect of the tidal aura only activate when Whirlpool ability has been used would be a good idea, I think. Otherwise it would often be a nuisance. But as an activated ability, that would be quite good. With low piety cost, could be balanced by having it only work on non-flying enemies.

In terms of "kiting" being a concern, I think the devil would be in the details; it would all hinge on how the water tiles actually spawned. I think the goal to shoot for would be having water tiles spawn around you at the beginning of and during an encounter with enemies, up to a certain point, but not when fleeing or just moving around. Coding that with sufficient discrimination might be difficult, however.

So my take would be something like this

Upon joining: You are completely buoyant, with no penalties (nor benefits) in shallow or in deep water. You are immune to the engulf status.

Tidal Aura: Size scales up with piety. Passive: shallow water will sometimes spawn at random spots within your tidal aura. Likelihood and number of shallow water tiles scales up with invocations. The chance to spawn shallow water within your tidal aura only triggers upon new enemies entering your LOS.

Rusting Brine: Active. Small piety cost. Inflicts corrosion on all weapons and armor within your tidal aura, except your own. Length of corrosion effect scales up with invocations.

Whirlpool: Active. Moderate piety cost. Your full tidal aura becomes shallow water. Nonflying enemies will not be able to blink/move away, and have a chance to be drawn closer each turn. Enemies that are drawn closer will be stunned and miss a turn due to stumbling, likelihood based on invocations vs. enemy HD. Flying enemies unaffected.

Slipstream: Active. Moderate piety cost. Enemies within your tidal aura have chance to become engulfed and may suffer asphyxiation damage. You may move through enemies as if they were allies. Duration and chance to engulf/damage enemies scales up with invocations.

Summon Kraken: Active. Very high piety cost. Many tiles (scaling up with invocations) within your tidal aura become shallow water, and a kraken is summoned, longer duration with high invocations.

Kraken should become available at 5* probably, it would be kind of awkward for a new active ability with high piety cost to be unlocked at max piety.

Overall, it would be a very defensive-oriented god—but that's cool, most are heavy on the offense—with one big damage summon at high piety. For name, why not Sethygir the Sunken (https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8935)

Anyway, solid idea overall, I hope you develop it and bring it to fruition.

[Lasty]

Names starting with "S" are discouraged since we already have one S god (or two, depending on how you look at it).

The drowned soul ability is actually one of my favorites: while in effect, each kill generates what are effectively homing missiles that attack nearby enemies. IMO, this might be the most interesting and different combat buff that's been proposed for a god, and I'm including Ru in that. Much more interesting than a melee damage bonus passive.

[bisonbisonbison]

Your latest list

0 Move and pick up in deep water
* Anti-escape aura that grows with piety, Active pull-in power
** AoE corrosion damage
*** Temp drowning brand on attacks, drowning kills can spawn friendly drowned souls
**** Invoked status gives @ speed, EV, allows swapping places with enemies
***** AoE Silence+Slow, reduced LoS
****** -


The crowd-control focus is interesting, How about an invoked ability ("Shove") where all enemies in aura have a chance to be pushed (multiple times but never out of aura?) in one of the eight directions checking HD v Invocations.

I might then say:

0 - water move + pickup
* anti-escape aura
** Pull-in power
*** drowning brand power + souls
**** Escapey power
***** shove-y power
****** Silence+Slow nuke

[Tollymain]

Everything I've put in this thread is liable to change when I actually make it.

Basically though, I'm trying to go with three subthemes here. Corrosion, drowning, freedom of movement.

I wonder if using corroded weapons/armour could be some kind of conduct. Probably be infringing on Ash's space though.

[Tollymain]

Your latest list

5* power is the capstone nuke level. 6* generally is a one time gift (Vehu capstone spells, Necronomicon, weapon branding), if anything.

[patheticliltramp]

Hey you're forgetting one pretty important thing - right now I could convert to this God just to get through Shoals, then leave and go back to another. How is this God going to punish for abandonment and what will cause temporary penance? You don't have to get all of that ready to code, but it's something important to think about.

Another thing I was thinking - if this God generates shallow water randomly around the player, what if the player could somehow use waterstrike? That deals asphyxiation damage I believe, something to think about.

[bisonbisonbison]

Everything I've put in this thread is liable to change when I actually make it.

Basically though, I'm trying to go with three subthemes here. Corrosion, drowning, freedom of movement.

I wonder if using corroded weapons/armour could be some kind of conduct. Probably be infringing on Ash's space though.

Corrosion is now a temporary status in trunk, so I don't see how that conduct would work.

I still think you could do shove with whirlpool - 1-4 and 6-9 push a direction, 5 pulls in!

[Leafsnail]

Hey you're forgetting one pretty important thing - right now I could convert to this God just to get through Shoals, then leave and go back to another. How is this God going to punish for abandonment and what will cause temporary penance? You don't have to get all of that ready to code, but it's something important to think about.

Would you really reset your piety and deal with the wrath of two gods just to get an ability that's equivalent to the rather common Flight effect?

[Tollymain]

Hey you're forgetting one pretty important thing - right now I could convert to this God just to get through Shoals, then leave and go back to another. How is this God going to punish for abandonment and what will cause temporary penance? You don't have to get all of that ready to code, but it's something important to think about.

Another thing I was thinking - if this God generates shallow water randomly around the player, what if the player could somehow use waterstrike? That deals asphyxiation damage I believe, something to think about.

penance probably involves getting puddles spawned under you or your equipment being hit with corrosion when tension is high
or if i'm ambitious, the god basically pulling an oceanic version of summon forest complete with scary kraken

honestly i'm not sure what i want to do with the player and direct drowning damage. drowning damage is pretty hardcore, so it'd probably need some careful balancing no matter how i approach it

i think the freedom of movement power is probably best flavored as some sort of water elemental form

man, i wish i remembered more about c++ from college :V

[Turukano]

The god of the sea

... in the tradition of Poseidon (Greek), Neptune (Roman), Ulmo (J.R.R. Tolkien) etc.

But I've got no idea how to name a sea god in DCSS should he make it into the game.

[Tollymain]

personally i prefer the "crawl gods don't possess explicit genders" idea myself