Make hellfire green


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 03:18

Make hellfire green

Almost everyone upon first encountering hellfire will think that it shares properties with fire damage, e.g. that it is AC resistable and rF resistable. In fact, I believe it is a spoiler that this is not true! It's awesome when people die, but it should be due to their own mistakes, not due to a false impression the game gave them. Making hellfire green instead of looking identical to fire will prompt the user that 'hey, this isn't regular fire anymore, it follows its own rules'.

Similarly, hellfire should not prompt Qazlal to change your temporary resistance to fire, because that keeps the player labouring under the misunderstanding even longer if they see it.

For this message the author Patashu has received thanks: 11
and into, Cheibrodos, duvessa, Greyr, Lasty, nilsbloodaxe, Quazifuji, Sar, Shard1697, XuaXua and one more user
User avatar

Spider Stomper

Posts: 216

Joined: Monday, 1st April 2013, 04:41

Location: TX

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 03:45

Re: Make hellfire green

Or purple. I think this is a swell idea.
take it easy

For this message the author Cheibrodos has received thanks:
XuaXua

o_O

Snake Sneak

Posts: 100

Joined: Friday, 30th September 2011, 07:08

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 03:53

Re: Make hellfire green

Does RF provide partial helfire resist or was that just a suggestion I read somewhere?
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1337

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2012, 02:28

Location: Limbo

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 04:02

Re: Make hellfire green

That's just misinformation you read somewhere.
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

Did you know that I like ruining crawl every now and then? Go check it out.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 04:14

Re: Make hellfire green

o_O wrote:Does RF provide partial helfire resist or was that just a suggestion I read somewhere?

Hellfire is 3d20 if the line of fire version, 3d15 if the smite targetted 'burst' version and ignores AC, EV, SH, rF, rN, your holiness, all the Rs. It only cares about generic damage reduction effects like petrification, damage shaving, shadow form, etc. Basically if it would work on smiting it works on hellfire and vice versa, so maybe it should be called hellsmiting :P I think djinn were immune to it when they existed.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 1050

Joined: Thursday, 12th June 2014, 05:19

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 05:18

Re: Make hellfire green

Patashu wrote:Similarly, hellfire should not prompt Qazlal to change your temporary resistance to fire, because that keeps the player labouring under the misunderstanding even longer if they see it.


I tested, and this doesn't seem to currently occur. If it does, it's a bug.


I also tested making hellfire green - this would be fine, except that it contrasts strongly with hellions/brimstone fiends (strange, given hellfire is Their Thing), and also looks almost exactly like poison attacks.

The latter is a bigger problem than the former.

Notorious fiend SGrunt suggests a blue/blue-white flame, but the former would look too much like freezing attacks, and the latter is kind of tricky to get right.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1031

Joined: Friday, 26th April 2013, 19:52

Location: AZ, USA

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 06:16

Re: Make hellfire green

For what it's worth, I think making hellfire the same color as a poison or ice attack is far less misleading than making it look like a fire attack. I'd throw my vote for green.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6260

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 08:37

Re: Make hellfire green

How about a nice sickly yellow?
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 09:16

Re: Make hellfire green

Aren't there two shades of green - bright and dark? Make it the shade poison isn't.

How about a nice sickly yellow?

I think there's an attack in hell that's the same colour. Maybe cacodemon orb of energy?
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1881

Joined: Saturday, 7th September 2013, 21:16

Location: Itajubá, MG, Brazil.

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 09:23

Re: Make hellfire green

how about something like Plasma? blue that gets purple towards the center?
Spoiler: show
Image
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.
User avatar

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 719

Joined: Friday, 7th January 2011, 01:43

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 10:03

Re: Make hellfire green

Aren't there two shades of red as well? Make the shade fire isn't, unless I'm forgetting something
duvessa wrote:Christ, you can't remove anything without tavern complaining about it.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 10:18

Re: Make hellfire green

Roderic wrote:Aren't there two shades of red as well? Make the shade fire isn't, unless I'm forgetting something

I doubt anyone would even notice that's meant to make a difference.

dck

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1650

Joined: Tuesday, 30th July 2013, 11:29

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 11:56

Re: Make hellfire green

In tiles hellfire effects were changes a good while ago and now pretty much look nothing like regular "fire" effects.
They also fit the scheme of colors a lot better than green or blue or pink with little stars fire would.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 508

Joined: Tuesday, 1st November 2011, 00:36

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 12:36

Re: Make hellfire green

TBH if it's called "fire" then I'd still expect it to be affected by "fire" resistance, even if it looks a bit different to other kinds.

For this message the author Leafsnail has received thanks: 4
duvessa, Quazifuji, rockygargoyle, Shard1697

Dungeon Master

Posts: 634

Joined: Sunday, 22nd September 2013, 14:46

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 12:38

Re: Make hellfire green

This seems to have been done over a year ago?? no idea why it isn't working.

e: Also, you can use ?/S to look at monster spells, where the description says that it ignores AC and rF. It's pretty well-hidden though.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 13:11

Re: Make hellfire green

wheals wrote:e: Also, you can use ?/S to look at monster spells, where the description says that it ignores AC and rF. It's pretty well-hidden though.

Are you fucking serious????*

Wow. I didn't know this existed and I started playing this game 2 years ago.

*not directed at anyone, just a general exclamation of intrigue

Dungeon Master

Posts: 1610

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 21:54

Post Tuesday, 8th July 2014, 14:14

Re: Make hellfire green

wheals wrote:This seems to have been done over a year ago?? no idea why it isn't working.

It is working, it just only affects the hellfire zap and not hellfire burst (now fixed).

For this message the author Kate has received thanks: 2
Patashu, Roderic
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Wednesday, 9th July 2014, 00:09

Re: Make hellfire green

MarvinPA wrote:
wheals wrote:This seems to have been done over a year ago?? no idea why it isn't working.

It is working, it just only affects the hellfire zap and not hellfire burst (now fixed).

Thanks for fixing this! I'm not sure if making it a different shade of red is distinctive enough, but it's already better.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 221

Joined: Thursday, 29th August 2013, 09:40

Post Saturday, 12th July 2014, 17:33

Re: Make hellfire green

I could go for purple hellfire if people feel it needs further changing and it wouldn't look similar to any other effects. What color is IMB, again?
You hear the distant roaring of an enraged eggplant.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1337

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2012, 02:28

Location: Limbo

Post Saturday, 12th July 2014, 18:58

Re: Make hellfire green

ImageImage
Well I also made a more purple version.
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

Did you know that I like ruining crawl every now and then? Go check it out.
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1881

Joined: Saturday, 7th September 2013, 21:16

Location: Itajubá, MG, Brazil.

Post Saturday, 12th July 2014, 19:10

Re: Make hellfire green

purple one looks gorgeous! and dangerous. cool.
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.
User avatar

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 291

Joined: Tuesday, 19th February 2013, 18:55

Post Sunday, 27th July 2014, 21:03

Re: Make hellfire green

purple one looks like something that would splat me in Abyss
I love pitsprint and pitsprint culture.
dpeg wrote:The only good player is a dead player.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 742

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 12:30

Post Sunday, 27th July 2014, 21:48

Re: Make hellfire green

The previous red tiles for hellfire look better than the new purple ones.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1337

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2012, 02:28

Location: Limbo

Post Monday, 28th July 2014, 00:18

Re: Make hellfire green

I don't think so.

And of course the old rltiles look far better than the new ones.

But I don't think so either!
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

Did you know that I like ruining crawl every now and then? Go check it out.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Monday, 28th July 2014, 02:19

Re: Make hellfire green

If hellfire was green this argument wouldn't exist
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1881

Joined: Saturday, 7th September 2013, 21:16

Location: Itajubá, MG, Brazil.

Post Monday, 28th July 2014, 03:54

Re: Make hellfire green

no but instead the argument would be "why is hellfire a poison thing?" and "who the hell thinks green is a good color for a badass explosion?"
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Monday, 28th July 2014, 04:16

Re: Make hellfire green

Hirsch I wrote:no but instead the argument would be "why is hellfire a poison thing?" and "who the hell thinks green is a good color for a badass explosion?"

I would prefer hellfire being jarring and unexpected to hellfire looking like fire so everyone just assumes it's fire and gets burned (ha ha) for the bad assumption
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1881

Joined: Saturday, 7th September 2013, 21:16

Location: Itajubá, MG, Brazil.

Post Monday, 28th July 2014, 16:14

Re: Make hellfire green

purple works for that. green is like the worst color.
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 45

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 00:00

Post Monday, 28th July 2014, 17:53

Re: Make hellfire green

The name itself causes the confusion. I already made my case in the bikeshedding thread: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13053

Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: chequers and 14 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.