Proposal: Permamark/Forlorn species

[godzilla]

There was a thread a while back about permamark (https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11337&p=158393&hilit=permamark), and there's been some talk about a forlorn species, so I thought, why not put them together?

Accursed
+1 aptitudes for everything but Invo (-1).
+1 HP, MP, XP
Forlorn
Permamark

Anyway, I wrote a patch (I'll upload it somewhere if there's any interest.) After a little playtesting, it doesn't seem like permamark does much until something makes a lot of noise. Then it gets fun. Forlorn is also a pretty big nerf, but +1 apts IMO make up for it. Anyways, thoughts/ideas welcome.

[basil]

Forlorn seems sort of alright as a random mutation, but I'm not sure that it would work as a basis for a race since Dg exists.

[reaver]

Forlorn seems sort of alright as a random mutation, but I'm not sure that it would work as a basis for a race since Dg exists.

I think a soft cap on piety would be different from hard restriction. For example, an effect which reduces spell success (A "heavy" armour, the Sap Magic effect) causes players to different things from one which completely prevents spells (A -Cast armor, Silence).

I don't think a permamark species would not be interesting. I wouldn't be opposed to pushing a patch to a branch, but I'm both doubt it would get in the game and don't know if a server operator would agree to make an experimental branch for testing.

Furthermore, I'm not sure combining two "gimmicks" for a race is a good idea, something like a Vampiric Formicid or a Vine-Octo-Stalker would be overcomplicated and reduce design space. (For example, Since I would not be able to wear body armor/boots while also experiencing the antimagic bite/guardian spirit gameplay)

[johlstei]

Doesn't Qazlal effectively give you perma-mark already? I'll admit I don't know the nuance of the difference between mark and lots of noise, but the overall gameplay effects seem similar.

[godzilla]

I don't think a permamark species would not be interesting. I wouldn't be opposed to pushing a patch to a branch, but I'm both doubt it would get in the game and don't know if a server operator would agree to make an experimental branch for testing.

Well, I put the patch in a pastebin http://pastebin.com/9gimKmem. Thanks for taking a look at it.

Furthermore, I'm not sure combining two "gimmicks" for a race is a good idea, something like a Vampiric Formicid or a Vine-Octo-Stalker would be overcomplicated and reduce design space. (For example, Since I would not be able to wear body armor/boots while also experiencing the antimagic bite/guardian spirit gameplay)

Yeah, this is a problem. I don't really think adding 2 relatively simple mutations is overly complicated, but they are pretty unrelated. Then again, Fo has both 2-handed weapon+shield and stasis, and Vs has low HP/regen & guardian spirit/antimagic, so it's not entirely without precedent.

Doesn't Qazlal effectively give you perma-mark already? I'll admit I don't know the nuance of the difference between mark and lots of noise, but the overall gameplay effects seem similar.

In practice, there's a pretty big difference-- with Qazlal you get swarmed whenever you enter a level, but with permamark it only happens when something makes a lot of noise.

[dck]

Well permamark would be the main thing this species would have going for them and this proposal seems to not address at all the perceived problems with a permamark species that were brought up last time it was mentioned, and this is leaving aside the fact there is a much more developed addition in trunk that also gives players generic access to the "permamark" gameplay (and generally just making the player exceedingly noisy works a lot better than trying to have him marked at all times).