New brand- Ethreal

[TeshiAlair]

Instead of checking entirely against AC, checks partially against AC and partially against MR.

Reason: Give SB users a tool against high AC targets besides going into hexes or hoping for an electro brand.

[Bart]

If that's the intention, good luck with all these magic immune golems or ancient liches.

[TeshiAlair]

I know weapon swapping as a concept is VERY unpopular, but against the previously mentioned monsters, you should have other options, just like a pain wielder has to have backups against nasty demons.

[dck]

I don't see anything wrong with weapon swapping and the way it's implemented in crawl is very straightforward and doesn't abuse the player's time.
I doubt you could wield two identical weapons, one of say flaming and another "ethreal" and see any actual difference in results by using them on a large sample of targets.

[Lasty]

Keep in mind that the brand should probably at least compete with vorpal. Ignoring some AC and then also getting reduced by MR sounds like a wash. Ignoring AC completely would be a much more interesting brand, IMO, but it could be interesting to have a brand that adds damage that's resistible by MR only -- though resisting damage isn't something MR normally does, so I'm not sure the flavor fits.

[nilsbloodaxe]

I know weapon swapping as a concept is VERY unpopular, but against the previously mentioned monsters, you should have other options, just like a pain wielder has to have backups against nasty demons.

Except it is not as if a pain weapon causes less damage on average then a normal, unbranded weapon on a demon. Sounds like this brand would actually be worse than an unbranded weapon on those enemies.

[klink]

The idea of giving SB users a tool against high AC seems like something that could be looked into, but I don't know if this is the way to do it. Maybe the proposed ethereal brand could guarantee a certain amount of damage per hit? That'd probably be too strong in general though.

[and into]

Well, don't mean to pile on, but I do have to question even the premise of the proposal.

To put it simply: Is it a good thing for short blades to have (more) ways to deal with high AC enemies? Doesn't this effectively make short blades more like other weapons? Don't short blades already have a special and very lethal relationship with effects that punish low MR monsters? Is the particular method for dealing with high AC enemies that this brand would offer interesting? (Granted some of the existing ways aren't interesting either, but adding another one that isn't interesting makes it easier and thus presents short blade users with less pressure and greater ease with no game play gain.)

[headcrab0803]

Imo for the purpose of making faster weapons better against high ac dudes can be done by adding the previously discussed acid brand

[cerebovssquire]

Imo for the purpose of making faster weapons better against high ac dudes can be done by adding the previously discussed acid brand

If you reduce the practical differences between slow/high damage and fast/low damage weapons you also reduce the reasons for having the two different types of weapon.

[Psiweapon]

Imo for the purpose of making faster weapons better against high ac dudes can be done by adding the previously discussed acid brand

If you reduce the practical differences between slow/high damage and fast/low damage weapons you also reduce the reasons for having the two different types of weapon.

I haven't payed that much attention to this thread, but I think this argument is unquestionable in an extreme case of reducing the difference, occasional and mild reduction of those differences need not bad enough such as to dilute the weapon differences into nothingness, I think, while giving the player another option sometimes (this reply is to cerebovssquire general argument, and not for or against this particular proposal of an ethereal brand)