Defensive God Proposal


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 293

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 05:04

Post Sunday, 4th May 2014, 19:43

Defensive God Proposal

This god proposal attempts to fill the design space of a "Defensive God." This god should be attractive to races that have poor natural defenses like ogres, and races that have fewer escape options like formicids and naga.

Appreciates: Proving your loyalty, creating altars for him, standing your ground

Deprecates: Running away from fights

Wsomething (working title) is the deity of protection and loyalty, commonly associated with stone. Every time you go to a new level, a marker is placed, and you are given vision of its location. You must prove your loyalty by travelling to the marker and erecting an altar using his first ability. This grants you piety and temporary benefits/drawbacks, listed below. He dislikes it when you leave a level without first creating the altar. Piety does not decay over time. Followers of Wsomething will receive personal protection, but not offensive power. He is a preserver, not a destroyer.

Wsomething dislikes cowards, believing that his abilities should always be enough to grant victory. Destroying an altar with disintegration causes Wsomething to abandon you. Running up stairs or teleporting with monsters in view might cause piety loss.

Abilities Granted:

...... - Create altar: Creates an altar to Wsomething at a spot of your choice. Creating the altar at the spot determined by Wsomething grants piety. Creating an altar temporarily afflicts you with mark of the sentinel, but also temporarily grants you hp and mp regeneration and bonus AC as long as you stay in LoS. Bonuses scale with piety. Killing enemies during this period, and while standing in sight of the altar grants piety. Eventually, the mark and the bonuses disappear and you no longer gain piety for killing monsters in LoS. Running away with enemies in sight before the effect is over causes penance. If you leave when there are no enemies to defend against, there is no penalty. This ability is sort of like a once-per-level defense mini game. You can avoid the mini game by killing nearby enemies before creating the altar, but you get less piety. On the other hand, since piety doesn't decay over time, this might not be such a bad thing.

*..... - Mountain Cloak: Activated ability. Slows your movement, but grants AC, MR, bonus hit points and preservation for a short time. Costs piety and mp. The AC and HP gain from this mechanic should be opaque, and there should be some way for the player to know ahead of time how much they will get, possibly with ^.

**.... - Stand your Ground: You gain bonus AC for every enemy adjacent to you. The bonus goes up the more enemies you fight at once.

***... - Glyph of Wsomething: Activated ability. Creates a temporary glyph that exalts Wsomething's glory. As long as you stand on the glyph, you gain rC+, rF+, rN+, rElec and DMsl. Duration depends on your invocation skill, and is VERY small at low levels of invocations. Costs piety and mp.

****.. - No new abilities gained.

*****. - Stone Cross: Activated ability. Raises temporary stone walls at a target location. The walls can't be adjacent to two or more walls, so you can't block passages. You target a 3x3 cross area with the ability, and a wall is guaranteed to be created at the center. Each other tile checks if a tile can be created there (i.e. if it wouldn't block a passage or create a blocked passage, if there's no monster standing there), then checks your invo and piety to see if a tile IS created there. At max piety and invocation, you can potentially create a 3x3 cross of tiles.

****** - Break Defenses: passive ability. Dealing damage to an enemy has a chance to reduce their armor. This ability stacks multiple times, and the chance is based on damage dealt. Defensive characters are more prone to drawn-out conflicts, which this ability benefits.

The conduct of this god is a sort of defense mini game that you can take or leave depending on how much piety you need. The main draw of worshiping Gereval is mountain cloak, which acts as a sort of statue form for melee fighters. Raise wall is a tactical ability for controlling crowds, which ogres and slow species hate. Crystal body is not the most interesting ability, but I think it works, thematically.

Retribution:
Leaving Wsomething causes a delayed retribution. He is a patient god, and will give you some time to return to him. If you don't, you suffer his wrath.
30%: strong earth miscast effect.
30%: degrades your armor.
20%: punishes you by reducing you MR and AC while in combat
20%: surrounds you with weak living statues

Wsomething's text is brown. Altars of Wsomething are called "Finely crafted."

Edited some abilities.

Edit: removed the trans/mutations conduct. Not running away is strict enough.
Last edited by File200 on Wednesday, 7th May 2014, 16:52, edited 10 times in total.

For this message the author File200 has received thanks: 3
Lasty, Roderic, Thundamoo

Spider Stomper

Posts: 209

Joined: Friday, 12th April 2013, 15:00

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 03:52

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

i am afraid that this god might make people to go for a endless quest of wear/wield-iding every peice of gear they find

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 293

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 05:04

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 04:00

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

headcrab0803 wrote:i am afraid that this god might make people to go for a endless quest of wear/wield-iding every peice of gear they find

Maybe Gereval auto-IDs weapons and armor for you to prevent this.

Also I notice that I have a lot of proposals here but not a lot of interest. If anyone expresses interest in playing a god or species I design, I'll add a branch with it. Otherwise I'm waiting for more feedback, and coding here in the background.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 746

Joined: Thursday, 5th December 2013, 04:01

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 08:04

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

I like the idea of a god that encourages a "stand your ground" style play. The general pattern of "find and fight on the altar" is a neat idea that would play very differently from any other playstyle, especially when combined with the AC bonus for adjacent enemies. My biggest concern is that, as described, the god would consist of finding the altar, kiting every enemy you find back to it until you need to use its heal (or even back to the altar from the level before if you hadn't used that one's heal yet), then proceeding through the rest of the level as normal, except you don't mind getting surrounded as much as most characters.

To really get a good "stand your ground at the altar" feel, I think you need enemies to come to the altar without having to go around luring them back. I'm not sure if this should be voluntary, since if it was, it might still be optimal to try to find and kite enemies back to the altar so you can fight a small number at a time. I also think it would be interesting if the altar had a constant bonus, rather than a single one-use heal, so the altar's strategic value stays throughout the whole floor, not just until you use the heal. So here's my idea:

As proposed, on each level, at a spot revealed upon entering the level, you can construct an altar. Upon constructing an altar, you gain piety and become marked as if you had set off an alarm trap. While standing within a certain distance of the altar (possibly determined by piety), you stay marked, but get several bonuses:

1. Increased health and mana regen (to help compensate for the fact that you can't rest)

2. Piety for killing enemies and/or reduced piety costs for abilities and/or buffs to abilities.

3. Buffs to the god's passive bonuses (e.g. more damage shaving, bigger AC bonus for adjacent enemies)

4. Maybe other buffs?

So the idea is that you're encouraged to stay near the altar, let enemies come to you with the mark, and take advantage of the altar's bonuses to kill them.

To be honest, I'm not 100% convinced that this playstyle would end up being fun (I remember discussions of a super-powerful but permamarked species not too long ago and most agreed it wouldn't be fun), but I do find it interesting and it would certainly encourage you to play very differently from how you normally do.

For this message the author Quazifuji has received thanks:
File200

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 14:46

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

I like a lot about this proposal, particularly the piety gain mechanism of being forced to go build an altar on each floor before leaving the floor. I'd prefer that this be the only method of piety gain for the god, since vacuuming the dungeon is both slow and uninteresting.

There are a few problems:
* I don't think the devs will go for more gifting gods, so I would recommend coming up with a replacement for this ability -- perhaps the god gradually increases the base AC and also ER of any armour you're wearing, or otherwise adjusts your defenses over time.
* Adding a 6 * activated ability is both frowned on and also not really supported by the current diety code.

Also, Quazifuji raised good points about the altar bonus, but I think that there's probably a way to tweak that idea until it's interesting -- maybe even just giving you a small bonus to regen and slaying on floors where you have an altar or something like that.

Also, FWIW, song of slaying is not great in general, but would be in-theme with this god: make noise to bring enemies to you and increase your power as you kill them off.

For this message the author Lasty has received thanks:
File200

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 799

Joined: Saturday, 23rd February 2013, 22:25

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 16:25

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

Create altar should be usable a limited amount of times per level, to stop players from making altars everywhere.
Also, you should be able to mark yourself or create a large amount of noise in order to call monsters to the altar and avoid having to walk over there to kite them back to the altar.

For this message the author khalil has received thanks:
File200

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 293

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 05:04

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 17:10

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

Quazifuji wrote:I like the idea of a god that encourages a "stand your ground" style play. The general pattern of "find and fight on the altar" is a neat idea that would play very differently from any other playstyle, especially when combined with the AC bonus for adjacent enemies. My biggest concern is that, as described, the god would consist of finding the altar, kiting every enemy you find back to it until you need to use its heal (or even back to the altar from the level before if you hadn't used that one's heal yet), then proceeding through the rest of the level as normal, except you don't mind getting surrounded as much as most characters.

To really get a good "stand your ground at the altar" feel, I think you need enemies to come to the altar without having to go around luring them back. I'm not sure if this should be voluntary, since if it was, it might still be optimal to try to find and kite enemies back to the altar so you can fight a small number at a time. I also think it would be interesting if the altar had a constant bonus, rather than a single one-use heal, so the altar's strategic value stays throughout the whole floor, not just until you use the heal. So here's my idea:

As proposed, on each level, at a spot revealed upon entering the level, you can construct an altar. Upon constructing an altar, you gain piety and become marked as if you had set off an alarm trap. While standing within a certain distance of the altar (possibly determined by piety), you stay marked, but get several bonuses:

1. Increased health and mana regen (to help compensate for the fact that you can't rest)

2. Piety for killing enemies and/or reduced piety costs for abilities and/or buffs to abilities.

3. Buffs to the god's passive bonuses (e.g. more damage shaving, bigger AC bonus for adjacent enemies)

4. Maybe other buffs?

So the idea is that you're encouraged to stay near the altar, let enemies come to you with the mark, and take advantage of the altar's bonuses to kill them.

To be honest, I'm not 100% convinced that this playstyle would end up being fun (I remember discussions of a super-powerful but permamarked species not too long ago and most agreed it wouldn't be fun), but I do find it interesting and it would certainly encourage you to play very differently from how you normally do.


I like this idea. The current 6* activated ability should be removed and rolled into the piety gain mechanic. Both the sentinel's mark and the fighting bonuses should be temporary, starting when you make the altar, so you don't have to fight the whole level at once. At the same time, players might want to go around the area of the altar and kill everything individually before starting the battle royale. Giving piety for enemies killed during the "Altar Fight" period should circumvent this, so players have the choice of a hard fight or less piety. But then players might want to kite enemies from around the level before starting? IDK. I'm worried that this creates a potentially limiting play style, forcing you to go through the ringer every level, but overall the uniqueness of the experience should make the idea worth implementing.

The altar could also provide a small bonus for the whole floor to encourage creating the altar ASAP.The power of this bonus would raise with piety.

Sacrificing items to gain piety will be dropped. If a dev says that gifting armor is stepping on other gods' design space, it will be dropped as well.

dpeg has expressed interest in this god, so I will work on a branch for it. Look forward to Gereval in about two weeks!

P.S. the name and flavor aren't final. Post your suggestions for a new name and flavor ITT.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 799

Joined: Saturday, 23rd February 2013, 22:25

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 18:25

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

As far as gifting armour goes, I think it'd be OK simply because the only things gods gift right now are spells, weapons, and decks. Armour gifts won't step on anyone's toes.
For names, we have:
H
I
P
R
U
W
open right now.
Rundival perhaps?

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 18:29

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

Be careful about making kiting enemies back to the altar too good. Here are some ideas on how to incorporate the altar in game play with the altar god without encouraging kiting:

+ Only one altar to Gereval can exist per level. If a randomly generated altar is created on a level, it will be pre-mapped if you worship Gereval and you get notification upon entering the level. If you pray at a randomly generated altar you "reclaim it" and get normal piety boost as if you had built it.
+ Gereval wanting you to make your altar only in a specific place is cool. One idea: You can make one altar per level anywhere, but you only get piety if you make it in the designated area? (Should be an area, not a specific tile.) Desired area could be pre-mapped. ("Gereval grants you a vision of a magnificent altar to your god's honor.")
+ You can use your heal HP/MP for a large piety cost anywhere on a level that contains an altar to Gereval, but it destroys the altar on that level. You cannot rebuild the altar nor build a new one on that level.
+ If your altar has not been destroyed/used: You have a moderate piety cost ability that teleports you (with standard ?teleportation delay) to your altar on that level.
+ You cannot build altars in the Abyss.
+ If you like the idea of a dungeon feature giving a buff while in LOS, consider giving Gereval an ability like this: "Makeshift Shrine: X piety cost, Y food cost. Create a temporary shrine to Gereval. While in LOS of this shrine you gain <foo> buff(s). After Z turns the shrine collapses."

Anyway, I think there is potential here for a defense-oriented god built around unique level exploration and altar-building.

For this message the author and into has received thanks:
khalil

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 18:30

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

khalil wrote:As far as gifting armour goes, I think it'd be OK simply because the only things gods gift right now are spells, weapons, and decks.


Okawaru gifts armor in addition to weapons and ammo. So yes, it does step on Oka's toes. But, as Lasty suggests, there are lots of ways Gereval could support/buff/improve armor use without just giving you armor the way Okawaru does.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 799

Joined: Saturday, 23rd February 2013, 22:25

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 18:41

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

and into wrote:
khalil wrote:As far as gifting armour goes, I think it'd be OK simply because the only things gods gift right now are spells, weapons, and decks.


Okawaru gifts armor in addition to weapons and ammo. So yes, it does step on Oka's toes. But, as Lasty suggests, there are lots of ways Gereval could support/buff/improve armor use without just giving you armor the way Okawaru does.

Oh, sorry. Best to avoid gifting armour than, as with Trog gifting weapons Okie needs all the uniqueness he can get.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 293

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 05:04

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 20:15

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

+ Only one altar to Gereval can exist per level. If a randomly generated altar is created on a level, it will be pre-mapped if you worship Gereval and you get notification upon entering the level. If you pray at a randomly generated altar you "reclaim it" and get normal piety boost as if you had built it.
+ Gereval wanting you to make your altar only in a specific place is cool. One idea: You can make one altar per level anywhere, but you only get piety if you make it in the designated area? (Should be an area, not a specific tile.) Desired area could be pre-mapped. ("Gereval grants you a vision of a magnificent altar to your god's honor.")

Good ideas. If the marked altar spot is in a terribly inconvenient place, you can put the altar up somewhere else for less piety. And you should definitely know beforehand where the designated altar spot is.

+ If your altar has not been destroyed/used: You have a moderate piety cost ability that teleports you (with standard ?teleportation delay) to your altar on that level.

That sounds extremely powerful. Like ultimate ability level powerful. Instant partially controlled teleport. If this is implemented, it should have a piety cost like Zin's sanctuary.

+ You cannot build altars in the Abyss.

Naturally. Too scummy.

+ If you like the idea of a dungeon feature giving a buff while in LOS, consider giving Gereval an ability like this: "Makeshift Shrine: X piety cost, Y food cost. Create a temporary shrine to Gereval. While in LOS of this shrine you gain <foo> buff(s). After Z turns the shrine collapses."

The primary ability will be changed to grant temporary buffs in LoS. Maybe this ability will grant a different set of buffs? Like a full set of resistances?

...

I'm going to keep the armor gifting unless more people (or any dev) are against it. Keep in mind the god is still in beta, so there's room for a better alternative down the line than "AC bonus." Maybe he grants GDR like a gargoyle? Anyway, I don't mind stepping on Okawaru's toes, because Trog already does that and frankly Okawaru could use some sort of reform. That's a topic for another thread though.

...

The working title of the god is GGGGG the Steadfast, but it has some theme issues. A friend of mine (who is helping me code) brought up the fact that this god has three somewhat conflicting themes: art, defense, and stone. The stone theme is somewhat weak due to its lack of synergy with earth magic, and the art theme doesn't reflect defense very well. What should the unifying theme be? Abilities will be reflavored depending on thread input. OP will be updated soon to reflect design changes.

Finally, we've come up with a possible alternate ability for raise wall: Create living statue. This fits both the art theme and the stone theme, and summoning fits the defense theme. The statue is a temporary creature that can't move, but has strong offense and defense. Gereval will extend the duration of the statue if you stay close to it or if it kills things.

For this message the author File200 has received thanks:
and into

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 799

Joined: Saturday, 23rd February 2013, 22:25

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 20:25

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

G is probably going to the Gold God, and Q to Qazal, so we'd have to go with another letter.
As far as theme, I'd go with god of the besieged. This fits with building things(it's not a siege unless one side has walls to hide behind) as well as defense.

For this message the author khalil has received thanks:
File200

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 293

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 05:04

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 21:03

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

khalil wrote:G is probably going to the Gold God, and Q to Qazal, so we'd have to go with another letter.
As far as theme, I'd go with god of the besieged. This fits with building things(it's not a siege unless one side has walls to hide behind) as well as defense.


"The Besieged" is good but I prefer "The Steadfast."

Defensive God's altars are currently called "Finely-Crafted." We now need a new name and a message for joining the religion.

Alternate names lined up:

Haribor
Iluwe
Pennekall
Rundival
Undrent
Wal Kentar

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 21:58

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

I think you still want feedback/ideas regarding other aspects of the god you are designing aside from name. So, I'd just suggest saying that this god's name is WWWWWW [working title] for the time being, and coming up with names later.

I'm only saying this because, unfortunately, naming discussions tend to derail the thread and I really don't want to see that happen. :)

When a first draft of the god is 95% coded up and you are mostly just balancing/tweaking, that would be a good time to start a new "name this god" thread if you still want to. (But expect a lot of bad puns and non-serious entries.)

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 293

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 05:04

Post Monday, 5th May 2014, 23:35

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

@and into: noted. Name discussion will be halted, but I would like to keep theme discussion in the thread in case it influences powers.

dpeg has doubts about armor gifts, so those are out.

He suggested that the "Reaching a spot on the level" piety gain mechanic should be decoupled from the "Altar Protection" mechanic. I'm unsure about this for thematic reasons. If there's a good thematic reason for getting piety for reaching a spot on the level, I'll consider implementing it.

He also suggested that glyph of gereval (now glyph of W) halt your movement entirely and change the surrounding 3x3 area into floor, so you can't use it in a dead end. I think this should apply to altar creation as well, so you can't create an altar in a dead end and abuse the choke point.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 9

Joined: Monday, 28th April 2014, 16:12

Post Tuesday, 6th May 2014, 19:43

Re: God: Gereval of the Mount

File200 wrote:A friend of mine (who is helping me code) brought up the fact that this god has three somewhat conflicting themes: art, defense, and stone. The stone theme is somewhat weak due to its lack of synergy with earth magic, and the art theme doesn't reflect defense very well. What should the unifying theme be?

Why, whoever could this friend of yours be? (Hint: it's me)

And since pointing that out and digging around with how this guy actually works I've thought of a theme proposal I'm rather fond of: [What's-his-name] the Steadfast, god of loyalty and protection.

Loyalty and protection work as one concept here (kind of like Zin's "law and purity") and are not only two ideals I value highly and think are awesome but they fit thematically with every key element we want to implement for [What's-his-name]. Out of loyalty you make a pilgrimage to [What's-his-name]'s holy grounds on every level and protect it as [What's-his-name] protects you. Protection is the part of the theme because duh, but adding "loyalty" in gives us more room for awesome-sounding thematic abilities and flavorful depreciation affects. It also puts a perfect thematic reason on [What's-his-name]'s technical need to not have piety depreciation over time since his piety is a limited resource (levels) rather than a potentially unlimited and therefore scummable resource (kills/corpses/items).

It also gives us lots of thematic freedom with the unique piety gain mechanic: you gain piety for going to a certain spot on the level because [What's-his-name] told you to, and he appreciates the demonstration of your loyalty to commands. You then have the interesting core piety gain mechanic (travel instead of monster kills) without the need for activating a small game of Zot Defense every time you do so.

Speaking of unique piety gain mechanics, I have an idea on that front that I really like and I think we should go with. (I'm talkin' directly to File here but I'd like input from the rest of you guys as well.)

Here's the deal:

We've so far established that you GAIN piety when you get to a certain spot every level and you LOSE piety if you leave the level before doing so. This is cool and unique but it suffers from the issue of being an extremely limited resource (once per dungeon level). How are you going to sustain your divine abilities with such a small piety influx?

Make none of [What's-his-name]'s abilities cost piety, that's how.

Look, we already have a really awesome mechanic that makes piety relevant: you gain piety when successfully completing a pilgrimage to a certain point on the level without leaving the level. This is more difficult than it sounds, and certainly leads to some tough, interesting choices! What if you walk down that staircase to L:3 for the first time and and find a whole herd of Death Yaks two tiles away, thirsting for your blood? If you high tail it right back up that staircase (as any sane crawler would do) you're suffering a huge, important chunk of piety loss... do you trust your God enough to make it through?

So you pop down your mighty Glyph of [What's-his-name] granting you resistances, bonus stats based on piety and invocations, as well as surrounding you with basic floor tiles and giving you piety loss if you move.

As the Death Yaks surround you, thirsting for blood, your AC rises, and praying to [What's-his-name] and the RNG you hack away at them with your axe (because why would you ever not be using axes with this guy).

Oh, wait, I know why. Because you're a CASTER, and you're using the bonuses from Glyph of [What's-his-name] to blast off your mightiest spells at increased power. ([What's-his-name] was designed initially for fighters and fighters only, but I think we'd benefit from broadening our ideas to make him an interesting choice for casters as well. Fighters should be our priority, though.)

In the end, however, you get totally wrecked by the Death Yaks and die horribly, because that's what herds of death yaks DO when you're surrounded by them on L:3. That tantalizing little pocket of piety off in the distance tempted you to stick around and try your luck, making you question exactly what optimal play would be in this situation. And that's where interesting gameplay comes from.

So basically, I propose a Piety mechanic in which Piety isn't a resource used to limit access to your abilities. Food, MP, and drawbacks of the activated abilities themselves will do just fine at that job if we design them right. Instead, piety is a force that tempts you to play in interesting ways and make you use your cool powers instead of just tabbing through the level. You'll gain Piety by reaching your destination each level without running away, and you'll lose piety by fleeing a level before doing so.

To make things even more interesting (and to make piety gain still relevant after you have all your abilities) [What's-his-name] should also have a number of things he depreciates. Obvious ones involving loyalty like attacking your allies are, well, obvious, but Piety can used for more. Perhaps he depreciates "lacking trust in him," which can translate to running away from fights. Your abilities don't cost piety, but stairdancing does! This is not to say we're making a god that prevents you from stairdancing, but the piety loss means you'll have to actually make a tough choice before deciding you'd rather fight that crimson imp on a pre-cleared level.

Obviously this means we'll have to balance [What's-his-name]'s activated abilities around the fact that they're not going to be piety-limited in when they're used. This will not be a terribly difficult thing to do. I'm already not going to drop a Glyph of [What's-his-name] in every fight since I'm so fond of... you know. Moving.

For this message the author Thundamoo has received thanks: 2
File200, Patashu

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 293

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 05:04

Post Wednesday, 7th May 2014, 00:08

Re: Defensive God Proposal

@Thundamoo: I trust your judgment on the issue of ability costs, so I'll propose a new system of costs. However, I object to giving the glyph any offensive abilities beyond mp regeneration. The op has been edited to reflect the "Loyalty" theme, and abilities might be reflavored in the future.

Because the defense mini game is so game-changing, and already precedented by Zot Defense, we'll try the god with and without the altar defense mechanic.

Running away is something that every character does, so we need to communicate the idea that it will cost you, but it's ultimately OK. Perhaps put that in the god description? "Wsomething dislikes running away, but understands that sometimes it is necessary. However, he will not tolerate running away from an altar that needs to be defended."

New proposal: Each ability has an "Exhaust" timer associated with it that prevents you from using god abilities. This timer is short for glyph, moderate for mountain cloak and long for raise wall. This is so you don't just decide "Stick to a tile and use all my abilities at once." You have to decide which ability is most appropriate for the situation.

...

Creating a single wall in the open will at most stall an enemy for one turn as it moves a space closer to you. Therefore, a few new proposals for raise wall:

1. You target a 3x3 cross area with the ability, and a wall is guaranteed to be created at the center. Each other tile checks if a tile can be created there (i.e. if it wouldn't block a passage or create a blocked passage), then checks your invo and piety to see if a tile IS created there. At max piety and invocation, you can potentially create a 3x3 cross of tiles. This should either have a steep hunger and mana cost, or only be usable a certain number of times per level. This is so you can't, for example, create a maze of walls on shoals and completely disrupt the existing difficulty balance. With this ability, you can force a monster to use more than one turn to close on you, but only at high invo and piety. The ability could be renamed "Raise Pillar" or "Stone Cross."

2. The ability guarantees a 3x3 cross of 5 wall tiles, but require a large invocation score to use reliably. The walls would be temporary, with invo+piety determining duration.

3. Creating a wall is instant (doesn't require an action). This gives you an extra turn to close or escape.

4. Raise Wall doesn't cause exhaustion until you create three. This gives the player more control, but possibly a little TOO much control. You can block a monster 3 times, forcing it to move 3 tiles closer to you.

5. Raise Wall can be kept at raising a single wall, but it will have a shorter cooldown and be permanent. This makes the ability strategic instead of tactical: Create a new passage ahead of time to lure enemies into. Especially powerful in Vaults.

...

Wiki page added: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... se:defense

Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.