Re: Boots of assassin and ranged weapons [trunk]

[zogre]

{{Mod Note: Split from Advice}}

How would headshots make ranged combat less boring?

Many modern games use the random rewards (such as critical hits, or random treasure) to invoke a kind of operant conditioning to encourage play. Since most people don't really see through the ruse, the conditioning environment which encourages play is seen as "excitement" rather than a Skinner box.

I think it's one of the reasons I'm so addicted to Trog/Oka - I just gotta keep pulling the handle on those loot machines, even if the VAST majority of the loot is useless floor trash.

[and into]

"Headshots" or similar work well in games like Skyrim in which you actually aim and use a "sneak mode." It is difficult to imagine how those would function within Crawl, however, unless how stealth works were fundamentally and quite radically changed.

On the other hand, this is the sort of play style change that a god could support while keeping the normal mechanics of DCSS the same; one way a god could support stealth/ranged combat (at same time) would be to give an "aiming" damage bonus to ranged weapons against constricted/disabled/distracted/asleep/dormant enemies. I think the trick there would be how to make it interesting—there needs to be some plausible circumstances in which "I shouldn't shoot this sleeping enemy" is the correct choice—and also perhaps preventing this effect from being too strong when used in conjunction with invisibility.

[tedric]

"Headshots" or similar work well in games like Skyrim in which you actually aim and use a "sneak mode." It is difficult to imagine how those would function within Crawl, however, unless how stealth works were fundamentally and quite radically changed.

On the other hand, this is the sort of play style change that a god could support while keeping the normal mechanics of DCSS the same; one way a god could support stealth/ranged combat (at same time) would be to give an "aiming" damage bonus to ranged weapons against constricted/disabled/distracted/asleep/dormant enemies. I think the trick there would be how to make it interesting—there needs to be some plausible circumstances in which "I shouldn't shoot this sleeping enemy" is the correct choice—and also perhaps preventing this effect from being too strong when used in conjunction with invisibility.

Maybe a successful headshot would cause the target to explode ("The foo's head pops like a grape!"), causing noise and splattering blood/chunks everywhere, and maybe giving you Mark status for a few turns so any enemies you've alerted are more or less guaranteed to converge on you. Probably should have a chance to happen with each shot, so sometimes you get a clean kill but you never know when you'll wake up the neighbors. I could see that being interesting when running into certain bands of enemies -- do you headshot that orc priest from afar and risk having to take on the entire group, or try to pull them away from the priest one at a time and hope it doesn't follow?

[and into]

But then you'd be (in at least some cases) punishing people for having stealth. In lots of areas, just shooting dudes with arrows without some "stabbing-like" component and the noise or Mark (!) it gave would be preferable.

By contrast, if that play style were supported by a god, you have the choice to take it or leave it, which avoids balance issues in main game, and means that you can have a specifically "sniper (stealth archer)" style with a different set of costs and benefits, without that interfering with everyone else who uses ranged attacks. Ranged combat is already very strong, albeit not always very exciting and, at least to some people's taste, rather fiddly and unfun to use as your primary mode of engagement. Making it more niche by having a strong, special interaction with stealth seems like it would detract a lot more than it would add, and at the end of the day would only serve to add a different stabbling-like component to the game (actually decreasing, rather than increasing, diversity).

A different take: A special type of thrown weapon that, similar to (but less intense than) stabbing, dealt good damage to enemies based on their asleep/dormant/confused/disabled etc. status, based on your throwing and stealth skills. That seems thematic and supportive of current styles, potentially interesting (more incentives to train throwing skill which is currently undervalued for most), but without messing with other ways to use ranged combat. (Or a combination with above: A god who adds damage to all non-stone thrown weapons based on how disabled/unaware enemies are. Darts and tomahawks are suddenly useful throughout game.)

[tedric]

Oh, yeah, I was working off your suggestion that it would be a god ability, something you have to invoke and would use situationally. I would not want the idea I described applied to all projectiles

[Quazifuji]

"Headshots" or similar work well in games like Skyrim in which you actually aim and use a "sneak mode." It is difficult to imagine how those would function within Crawl, however, unless how stealth works were fundamentally and quite radically changed.

On the other hand, this is the sort of play style change that a god could support while keeping the normal mechanics of DCSS the same; one way a god could support stealth/ranged combat (at same time) would be to give an "aiming" damage bonus to ranged weapons against constricted/disabled/distracted/asleep/dormant enemies. I think the trick there would be how to make it interesting—there needs to be some plausible circumstances in which "I shouldn't shoot this sleeping enemy" is the correct choice—and also perhaps preventing this effect from being too strong when used in conjunction with invisibility.

Why can't a headshot just function like ranged stabbing? I guess it could be a god ability or an intrinsic thing, but it seems like a pretty logical way for it to work.

Or, maybe as an alternative, there could be an "aimed shot" ability that does more damage but has a delay of a turn or two before shooting. Would let you do extra damage against sleeping enemies, while possibly being too risky (or perhaps not worth it) in other circumstances.

[sgrunt]

Why can't a headshot just function like ranged stabbing?

Internally, ranged combat works nothing like melee. Making the two more consistent is something we hope to do for 0.15.

(Clearly we will revive hand crossbows and use those and blowguns for top tier range stabbing.)