Normalize eveningstars/double swords for small races

[Shard1697]

Right now, eveningstars are 1-handed for small races, while double swords for some reason become 2-handed despite having the exact same stats(and being part of a generally slightly weaker weapon school) as eveningstars and both are rare. They should either both be one handed for small races, or both two handed-preferably the former, since making some 'heavier' one handed weapons into two handers for some races has always been weird.

[dynast]

Normalize? isnt the whole main idea for the them to be different? You have the choice of a stronger, one handed weapon on a species that has shitty aptitudes towards it, or not. Also, there are no, easier to find, demon maces in the game, so to me this whole idea is "make maces be a stupid idea for small species" and lets be honest, broad axes already do that quite well.

[ydeve]

You have the choice of a stronger, one handed weapon on a species that has shitty aptitudes towards it, or not.

No you don't, because by the time you have the two weapons to choose from you've already trained your weapons skill.
Alternatively, basing early game weapons choice on which weapons you will find late game is bad for winning.

[WingedEspeon]

Normalize? isnt the whole main idea for the them to be different? You have the choice of a stronger, one handed weapon on a species that has shitty aptitudes towards it, or not. Also, there are no, easier to find, demon maces in the game, so to me this whole idea is "make maces be a stupid idea for small species" and lets be honest, broad axes already do that quite well.

Except if you wanted them to be different you wouldn't give them the EXACT same stats. They are the same weapon, except if you are a halfling or a kobold. I thought we were removing special casing from DCSS. Given that demon blades exsist and deal about as much damage as a double sword anyway and are often easier to find, going maces on a halfing is already a bad idea. Also kobolds have a much better maces Atp than they do for long blades so this change would make maces slightly less of a no brainer for them (although still the best choice).

[dynast]

basing early game weapons choice on which weapons you will find late game is bad for winning.

Or you can just use whatever weapon you want early then switch later, while training both or just the latter, or none until you find something more definitive, instead of just looking at your +1-1 apts. Also it is pretty easy to plan and get a end game weapon(early on) based on god choices. Bad for winning? I honestly dont care.

Except if you wanted them to be different you wouldn't give them the EXACT same stats. They are the same weapon, except if you are a halfling or a kobold. I thought we were removing special casing from DCSS. Given that demon blades exsist and deal about as much damage as a double sword anyway and are often easier to find, going maces on a halfing is already a bad idea.

I like how the counter argument to "make swords less of a no-brainer for halflings" is "make maces less of a no-brainer for kobolds", you got me.

If you guys just want double blades to be one handed for those species its fine by me, but it looks silly when your argument is "look at those two different types of weapon, make them more similar!". I dont care for special casings, its the whole deal of small species to have special casings.

[chequers]

It's surprising to have some 1h weapons become 2h and some to stay 1h, so I'm in favour of this change as it improves crawl's internal consistency.

[duvessa]

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15036

[chequers]

Suggestion: don't change the handedness based on player size. Just prevent small species using certain weapons, and unify this for Sp and Ko/Ha.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

prevent small species using certain weapons

OK, how to do this though? Maybe the system needs to be rethought; a quick brainstorm:

- small species need 50% more skill levels to reduce weapon delay
- weapons with base delay > 160% cannot be used
- broad axes and great swords are heaviest usable weapons and reach 0.7 mindelay at 27 weapon skill
- buff aptitudes selectively

[chequers]

Changing skill required based on size has precedent with shields, but I'm not a huge fan.

My suggestion:

Option a) Sp/Ko/Ha can use any 1h weapon (and they remain 1h) and a buckler/shield
Option b) Sp can only use short blades and buckler, Ko/Ha as above