Amnesia and Spell Synergy

[Velikolepni]

There were some proposals recently to make amnesia scrolls rarer. I think that it was in part motivated by the desire to make Sif Muna's ability more useful.

Without commenting on the merit of this proposal, I would like to suggest that IF sources of amnesia become rarer, that a certain number of spells get the Fireball - Delayed Blast Fireball treatment, i.e. the levels required for memorization only take the highest level into account.

Possible such spell couples include, but are not limited to,
1) Animate Skeleton - Animate Dead (they are already combined in Yredelemnul's ability)
2) Confuse - Mass Confusion
3) Abjuration - Mass abjuration / Aura of Abjuration
4) Shock - Lightning bolt
5) Throw Frost/ Flame - Bolt of Cold/Fire
6) Repel Missiles - Deflect Missiles
7) Blink - Controlled Blink
8) Summon Demon - Summon Greater Demon
9) Sting - Venom Bolt
10) Stone Arrow - Iron Shot
11) Static Discharge - Chain Lightning
12) Dispersal - Disjunction

The above spells are sufficiently similar to each other in my opinion to justify claiming that knowing one of the spells helps in understanding the other so that the memorization levels overlapp.

One of the reasons for this proposal is the fact that, while the higher level spells are very useful, they are often overkill. One of my recent wins was with a VpAM and I amnesiad Confuse to memorize Mass Confusion. There were plenty of times where the mass version was not more usefull, but its cost got me into trouble.

At any rate, I think that this proposal should only be taken into account if amnesia scrolls are made rarer. Otherwise, it's not really needed and nerfs spellcasting a bit.

[Amnesiac]

in my recent trunk games amnesia is rare as it is

[dpeg]

To be honest, I don't like the Delayed Fireball mechanic very much, and the strange mechanical oddity it makes. I'd rather get rid of it, than extend this treatment to other spells. Besides, what you suggest would probably make spell sets look more uniform, something we shouldn't encourage.

(By the way, I seem to have missed this plan to reduce ?amnesia frequency, not that I am totally opposed to it. However, I wouldn't do it for Sif --that seems better and more easily achieved by increasing the piety cost of the ability-- but to consider players giving up books more often. Then again, players shouldn't feel like every spell they learn is an investment cast in stone.)

[Lasty]

Delayed Fireball needs the special spell level treatment in a way that none of these others do: its power level means it can't realistically be a level 2 spell, but it's a spell you cast so infrequently (and never in combat) that very few characters can afford to spend 7 spell levels on it.

All the other spells on your list are fine spells on their own, and don't really need an assist. If there's a problem with how many spells a character can memorize (and I don't think there is), then we should address that directly.

[TeshiAlair]

I think I was the one bitching about ?amnesia frequency. Needless to say I like this proposal, and I really like the idea of "evolved" spells in general. I think theres a lot of design opportunity there. Hell, I get excited when flame tongue gets an extra range. Feels like Progress.

[Velikolepni]

One more thing:

Right now, I never take the first few gifts that Vehumet gives, because the pace of gifts is much quicker than the increase in available spell levels. Since I can only forget them via scrolls of amnesia and they are precious and rare, I end up never taking them, fearing that they will prevent me from getting higher level spells. If on the other hand I know that stone arrow synergises with Iron shot, I will be less weary of accepting it.

[XuaXua]

I never take the first few gifts that Vehumet gives, because the pace of gifts is much quicker than the increase in available spell levels. Since I can only forget them via scrolls of amnesia and they are precious and rare, I end up never taking them, fearing that they will prevent me from getting higher level spells. If on the other hand I know that stone arrow synergises with Iron shot, I will be less weary of accepting it.

What if the proposed synergizing idea (and possibly Delayed Blast Fireball itself) became bonuses for worshiping Vehumet instead of being globally implemented?

[damiac]

Wouldn't such a bonus make more thematic sense for Sif? Not that such a thing would make her any more interesting to play, it'd just be another passive bonus...

[TeshiAlair]

Wouldn't such a bonus make more thematic sense for Sif? Not that such a thing would make her any more interesting to play, it'd just be another passive bonus...

What if Sif had an active that let you cast the "evolved" versions of the spells?