Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

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Dis Charger

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Post Monday, 10th March 2014, 21:02

Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

Just some weapon damage brand concepts:

  • "Crippling" (ranged): Chance of 'breaking a target's limb' if it does a minimum amount of damage (more than 1/8th total HP). When inflicting a cripple, the game states which limb and the effect. Rolls from those of the following
    • A leg. - Slows Movement. (or does nothing, if target is winged)
    • Another Leg (Quadruped). - Slow movement further and lowers EV.
    • The other Leg (Biped) - Stops movement cancels EV.
    • Right Arm - Drops Weapon and lowers primary Melee Damage.
    • Left Arm - Drops Shield; lowers EV. Cancels an Auxiliary attack when relevant.
    • Head - Lowers Accuracy and inflicts AntiMagic. Lowers melee damage on creatures with 'fake spells'.
    • Wing. - Stops flight.
  • "Acid Coated" (Melee and Ranged) - Chance to lowering target's base AC 1d3 points.
  • "Bloodthirsty" (melee): Cursed, Recurses self on equip (always). It affects its own Enchantment. It always has a negative enchantment on equip. It goes up by total a portion of the total hitdice of natural monsters killed by it. It's max is higher than the normal max. Cannot be affected by Enchant Weapon Scrolls. Returns to original (horrible) enchantments if you use a scroll of remove curse.
  • "Stunning" (Maces): Chance of causing Sleep on hit.
  • "Vital" (Polearms, Axes, Long Blades): Chances of causing a Level 2 stab on hit; using average of weapon and fighting instead of Stealth.
  • "Silent" (Melee): Makes no melee noise.
  • "Obsidian" (melee): Made of hardened rough stone instead of metal, thus easily affected by Earth Magic. [Damage boost based on Earth Magic, similar to Pain, but based on percentage (better on High DAM weapons) instead of by hit.]
  • "Molten" (melee): Made of completely melted metal. Half damage done is resistible by rF; half completely irresistible (ignores AC).
  • "Phased" (melee): Chance based on Translocations skill to ignore AC completely (phase in and out of reality to pierce the opponent, but not their armor.)
  • "Unholy" (melee and ranged): Opposite of holy wrath. Common on demonic weapons. Extra Damage to Creatures with Healing Spells, worshipers of good gods, and holy creatures. Mostly useless to the player, but worth being afraid of...if you are of a good god.
I'm beginning to feel like a Cat God! Felid streaks: {FeVM^Sif Muna, FeWn^Dithmenos, FeAr^Pakellas}, {FeEE^Ashenzari, FeEn^Gozag, FeNe^Sif Muna, FeAE^Vehumet...(ongoing)}

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Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 01:08

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

You aren't suppose to discuss multiple topics in a thread, although this rule is pretty selectively enforced only when topics degenerate.

Actual feedback:
Too many to tell you specifically why the bad ones are bad (generally overcomplicated).

Good ones:

Silent is the best and an effect I've never seen before, but may be too weak for a weapon brand. If it is, it would probably be better folded into the "artifact weapon which gives a field of silence" idea that has been hanging around forever.

"Unholy" is also very interesting in that it uses a distinction that Crawl players are already aware of to distinguish which monsters to damage. I dislike Crawl's holiness system in general, but since holiness isn't going away it sounds nice.

Bloodthristy is overcomplicated, but the idea could work fine on an artifact. I know this because an artifact (Wyrmbane) already uses it. Perhaps the concept could be mined more for a couple more artifacts, but as a weapon brand it would be awful.

Plenty of these become more powerful based on your skill in a particular magic skill. I think this could work as a artifact property (gives extra damage based on your foo skill) but doesn't work as a brand.
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Dis Charger

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 02:17

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

reaver wrote:Plenty of these become more powerful based on your skill in a particular magic skill. I think this could work as a artifact property (gives extra damage based on your foo skill) but doesn't work as a brand.


Pain does that with Necro (being very rare unless you are of Kiku nonewithstanding). Doing it with Earth (as the only elemental school that doesn't have one [though Flaming/Freezing/Elec just use the dam type and not boosted by the spell school]) and Translocations instead too weird. Though in the case of Translocations, I'm fairly sure it's the only use of that spell school for increased dam instead of defense/escape. Is there any practical reason what Pain does shouldn't be applied to other brands/schools?
I'm beginning to feel like a Cat God! Felid streaks: {FeVM^Sif Muna, FeWn^Dithmenos, FeAr^Pakellas}, {FeEE^Ashenzari, FeEn^Gozag, FeNe^Sif Muna, FeAE^Vehumet...(ongoing)}
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 03:10

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

bcadren wrote:Pain does that with Necro (being very rare unless you are of Kiku nonewithstanding). Doing it with Earth (as the only elemental school that doesn't have one [though Flaming/Freezing/Elec just use the dam type and not boosted by the spell school]) and Translocations instead too weird. Though in the case of Translocations, I'm fairly sure it's the only use of that spell school for increased dam instead of defense/escape. Is there any practical reason what Pain does shouldn't be applied to other brands/schools?


Symmetry in choices tends to make them less interesting.
take it easy

Halls Hopper

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 03:13

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

bcadren wrote: Pain does that with Necro (being very rare unless you are of Kiku nonewithstanding). Doing it with Earth (as the only elemental school that doesn't have one [though Flaming/Freezing/Elec just use the dam type and not boosted by the spell school]) and Translocations instead too weird.


Earth magic does normal physical damage, Having a brand based on Earth magic is just a more situational vorpal. Pain gets away with it because it is rare outside of Kiku worshipers. It gives Kiku a way to improve melee making him more open/useful to melee and hybrid characters.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 03:42

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

A brand/ego brainstorming thread isn't overwhelming, as long as we separate good ideas into individual threads once the bad have been weeded out.
I posted a thread a lot like this, to add those previous ideas: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5507&p=73898#p73898

Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 04:45

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

bcadren wrote:Pain does that with Necro (being very rare unless you are of Kiku nonewithstanding). Doing it with Earth (as the only elemental school that doesn't have one [though Flaming/Freezing/Elec just use the dam type and not boosted by the spell school]) and Translocations instead too weird. Though in the case of Translocations, I'm fairly sure it's the only use of that spell school for increased dam instead of defense/escape. Is there any practical reason what Pain does shouldn't be applied to other brands/schools?


It would make the connection between pain and necromancy, and between the enhancer staves and their respective schools, less distinct. That isn't a deal breaker, but it does mean there should be a strong compelling reason for why to add it. What does it actually add? It increases melee damage based on raising a magic skill, and having more brands that benefit weapon speed over base damage—but there are already effects in game that do precisely this. For phasing, ignoring AC could be cool but I wouldn't increase tloc just for the chance of that; also what AC enemies have is not apparent in most cases so it would be hard to judge where and how it is useful without digging into stuff that players generally shouldn't concern themselves with.

With a lot of these brands, I think you need to weigh, "likelihood to benefit a player's experience" (by creating interesting choices or new non-trivial decisions) versus the additional complexity and opacity. To me, most of your suggestions don't pass muster; I could see Molten, Stunning, a simplified version of Crippling, and maybe Vital working out on specific unrandarts, but not as regular brands.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 05:34

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

Phasing sounds like an interesting brand. I don't think it needs to be connected to tloc, though. A brand that bypasses AC instead of adding damage sounds pretty cool.

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 10:49

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

Viashino_wizard wrote:Phasing sounds like an interesting brand. I don't think it needs to be connected to tloc, though. A brand that bypasses AC instead of adding damage sounds pretty cool.


Phantasmal warriors have it, sort of. Treats AC as half and ignores shields. Can't say it's very noticeable. Would be a great weapon to use against Mennas though.

Agree with and_into that some of these would be better off as unrands. I can imagine Vital on a weapon with mediocre base type or mediocre enchantment, but gives a chance of "critical hits" (stabbing damage) maybe based on stats instead of skills. Instead of complicated Crippling, the idea I had was of Pinning or Tripping - target loses a turn if it tries to move, but can attack normally. Sort of like monster Barbs ability.

I'm not a fan of Unholy. It works fine as a concept, but there aren't that many holy enemies in crawl and worshiping the good gods already have a ton of disincentives. What's next, a brand targeted at Trog worshipers?

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 11:51

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

roctavian wrote:A brand/ego brainstorming thread isn't overwhelming, as long as we separate good ideas into individual threads once the bad have been weeded out.
I posted a thread a lot like this, to add those previous ideas: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5507&p=73898#p73898


Some of them are pretty neat! I notice Phasing was proposed there too. Nothing in GDD is ever new :lol:

I especially like Ricochet as a launcher/ammo brand (makes ammo behave like lightning bolt) and the Dancing brand (evoke to animate weapon). Both probably should go on unrands. Or (for me anyway) unrand ideas could go on equipgod too.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 14:27

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

The silent brand would have to do more than just make melee combat noiseless for anyone to ever use it. Maybe if it also gave a large stealth bonus, but otherwise who's going to choose a weapon brand that does nothing to make them actually better in combat? Remember, stabs are already silent, by the way.

Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 17:44

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

Silent and ignores AC seem to go hand in hand to me. Combine them and it might add up to an interesting brand.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 19:16

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

Still, ignoring armor is basically just an additive damage brand, that's less effective on more armored targets. It seems like it would be a crappy version of the electric brand. I maintain that a weapon making no noise seems worthless to me, but I could be wrong.

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Post Tuesday, 11th March 2014, 20:57

Re: Bulk Proposals: Brand Concepts

If it suppressed noise from nearby monsters too then it might be kindof cool.

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