Proposal: Cheibriados Time Freeze

[Klown]

This idea was spawned from a Nessos insta-kill of a Cheibriados worshipper(and Chei being the weakest God in many player's eyes), and a few players here seemed to agree it was worth proposing. The poor gargoyle walked around the corner only to see a flurry of arrows, killing him without even 1 turn to react.

Time Freeze: Every time a new enemy enters your LOS, all allies & enemies are frozen for one turn.(technically, skips their turns, giving you another one)

The passive ability Time Freeze is gained the instant you begin worshipping our favorite snail. It can be used for both offensive and defensive purposes. It's strongest when meeting a pack of enemies, constantly pumping more monsters into your LOS. Combo'ing well with slouch and such.

Example

  Code:

Superman casts magic dart. Hits jackal #1.
Jackal #1 moves forward 2 tiles(or more, depending on your slowness).
Jackal #2 enters LOS.(activating Time Freeze, skipping their next turn).
Superman casts magic dart, hits jackal #1.
Jackals frozen in time.
Superman casts magic dart, kills jackal #1.
Jackal #2 moves forward 2 or so tiles.


[bcadren]

As much as I agree (possibility of dying in one turn is more possible as a Chei worshipper than otherwise); freezing EVERYTHING is too powerful by a long shot. One turn paralysis to just the new monster seems more reasonable.

As a side note I've done the opposite...Stab-killed Nessos as a NaEn of Chei.

[Wahaha]

I have no comment about whether this proposal is good or not but it's not too powerful even if freezing everything, if the enemy that comes into view still gets a stealth check. Enemies coming into view while you're already fighting something is not a good thing.

[WalkerBoh]

It would be better if the chance of it triggering scaled based on piety or monster HD, and if it only affected the monsters that just came into LoS rather than all enemies in LoS.

[reaver]

Combining WalkerBoh's suggestions and my own thoughts, here is how I would implement this:

Whenever an enemy comes into your LOS, they is a HD-based chance they lose their next turn. This is a zero piety ability, triggered from when you first join Chei. The HD save is designed so it occurs basically always (including uniques) until around the Lair, at which point it becomes less reliable. The save may or may not scale with piety. This ability has a per-enemy cooldown for around 1000 aut, so if a rat comes into view and you back up with your next step, the rat won't be frozen when it enters your LOS again next turn. Bend Time is moved back to *.

It might also be a decent idea to explore causing the enemy to be frozen for multiple turns, or having special effects while frozen (like taking no damage).

While being insta-killed by an enemy isn't good gameplay, being able to insta-kill enemies before they can react is just as bad. While this might be the buff Chei needs to be competitive, this proposal would need a careful touch to avoid collapsing into degenerate gameplay.

[Hirsch I]

reaver's version is very good. it is a pretty powerfull ability, that will substantially increase Cheites ability to walk away.
EDIT: but freezing everything could be abusable.

[crate]

that will substantially increase Cheites ability to walk away.

the entire point of chei is that you can't walk away (but I'm not sure that this proposal really affects this at all)

[Hirsch I]

hmmm, I dont think it would change that. I just think being able to not fight something is a good thing, even for chei. he would still be a god that punishes bad decisions with high severity, but the player will not be doomed if something hard comes into LOS.

[pubby]

I don't really think this is needed because 1-turn Chei deaths are very very rare, and if you're really worried about it you can train stealth or defensive skills.

Still, a crazy old idea I had was for Chei to passively delay and spread-out all damage you receive. So if Nessos would deal 100 damage, you would take 10 damage each turn for 10 turns. I don't think this is worth implementing for Chei, but it would solve the problem that you described.

[reaver]

"increasing the ability of Cheites to walk away" seems like a red herring to me. When I made my suggestions, I was focused on making an ability which would make Chei significantly less awful, and possibly also reduce the wild swings of difficulty Chei sometimes produces. This is why I suggested making the ability become unreliable around the Lair. I did not intend for the freezing to allow for a player to run away, unless they chose to use a consumable resource such as ?blink or ?tele. After considering the possible implications of this enemy freezing ability, I no longer think that this is the right way to improve Chei. There must be other possible changes which would make Chei a reasonably powerful god without sacrificing tactical gameplay or making Chei less unique.

[WalkerBoh]

  Code:

[21:37:35]   MorganL   i think a nice solution would be
[21:37:42]   MorganL   when a chei worshipper takes a step
[21:37:52]   MorganL   and during that step, an enemy enters LoS and becomes aware of the player
[21:38:03]   MorganL   said enemy doesn't take any actions whilst that step is finishing

I like this implementation, specifically that it should only be triggered by movement actions by the player. A player casting magic dart (as in the OP's example) should not get a free move on monsters at LoS.

[Hirsch I]

". After considering the possible implications of this enemy freezing ability, I no longer think that this is the right way to improve Chei.

damn, I rolled a 1 in Diplomacy. sorry Klown. I'll leave now.

[Bloax]

Still, a crazy old idea I had was for Chei to passively delay and spread-out all damage you receive. So if Nessos would deal 100 damage, you would take 10 damage each turn for 10 turns. I don't think this is worth implementing for Chei, but it would solve the problem that you described.

Having a damage sponge ability like this that soaked up half the incoming damage with an ability to clear it for DamageSoaked^0.85 piety would be quite powerful.

although it's not like chei is really weak as it is

[reaver]

Still, a crazy old idea I had was for Chei to passively delay and spread-out all damage you receive. So if Nessos would deal 100 damage, you would take 10 damage each turn for 10 turns. I don't think this is worth implementing for Chei, but it would solve the problem that you described.

Having a damage sponge ability like this that soaked up half the incoming damage with an ability to clear it for DamageSoaked^0.85 piety would be quite powerful.

although it's not like chei is really weak as it is

I think a bigger problem is that Chei is weak in the already hard early game, so the best ways to strengthen the god would affect the early game. This is part of the reason Bend time was moved to be available immediately on beginning to worship Chei, and why my version of the Time Freeze starts at the beginning starts on worship and becomes unreliable near the Lair.