Bikeshedding Iashol

[Lasty]

Hey folks,

I've heard from a bunch of people that Iashol looks like it should be pronounced "I, Asshole", and so we could probably use a rename. I was going for a vaguely Egyptian sound. We don't necessarily have to start with I, since Igni is also bucking for that one.

Also, I think the piety titles could use work -- they're lifted from a previous suggestion which beat what I had at the time, but I think there's room for improvement.

  Code:

    // Iashol -- sacrifice theme
    {"Shirker",           "Volunteer",              "Sufferer",                 "Afflicted",
     "Agonized",          "Tortured",               "Martyr",                   "Saint"},


Oh, and currently the Iashol signature color for messaging and altars in console is brown. That can be bikeshedded too.

[Bim]

Not to sound overly awkward, but shouldn't this stay in the Iashol thread itself?

[Patashu]

Not to sound overly awkward, but shouldn't this stay in the Iashol thread itself?

No.

When you're trying to discuss Iashol bugs/balance, Iashol naming is noise.
And vice versa.
I don't think you understand how heated name discussions get, this will balloon to pages

[Bim]

Not to sound overly awkward, but shouldn't this stay in the Iashol thread itself?

No.

When you're trying to discuss Iashol bugs/balance, Iashol naming is noise.
And vice versa.
I don't think you understand how heated name discussions get, this will balloon to pages

Fair enough, I've just always seen it as better etiquette to split discussions if needed rather than preemptively do it.

No harm done, just didn't really see the need at the moment - tis all.

[Lasty]

I've consistently seen it requested that bikeshedding go into its own thread, so I figured I'd do it preemptively.

[TeshiAlair]

Istamiself

[Bim]

I've consistently seen it requested that bikeshedding go into its own thread, so I figured I'd do it preemptively.

Apologies then, other forums I visit frown upon multiple topics on the same feature and I didn't realize re-naming would be such a big issue for Gods to warrant a new topic! No offense meant.

My personal opinion on the matter is that he should have a more voodoo/vodun inspired name, as they're more about bodily sacrifice (of parts, rather than Egyptian whole body sacrifice). It'd possibly give him/her/it a more unique flavor to the standard fantasy gods as well which would be nice!

[WalrusMcFishSr]

I don't know if this was the intention, but I already perceived Kiku as the "voodoo god". Both because of his association with zombie magic, and also because I often pronounce his full name with a deep, generic Caribbean accent. Try it, it's fun, throw in a dark laugh afterwards for extra effect.

An Egyptian flavor could be cool, but I don't know much about Egyptian naming or mythology. Iahotep? Ibithes?

I was thinking the other day it might work if this god had something like a "deal with the devil", "divine bureaucracy" type flavor. You know, a well-dressed devil appears, makes you sign a contract in blood which then disappears in a burst of fire. When you die it's all "Take a number! Tickets please!" like in Beetlejuice or King's Quest 6. I would love it if a friendly '&' actually appeared when you invoked such a deal, as sort of an allusion to the wishing demons from Nethack.

No name suggestions for that idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[reaver]

As a minor note, since Igni still has a vague chance of getting in it might be best if Iashol received a name which does not start with "I". Iashol is being actively developed so they definitely have priority over Igni, but if the god is being renamed anyway it seems best to sidestep this issue.

Unused letters other than "I" are H, P, R, U, & W.

W seems like a good letter because it's less rare in Egyptian words than English ones. Some Egyption god names starting with W include Wesir, Wadjet, Wadj-wer, Wepwawet, and Wosret, although I would prefer if none of those names were used exactly.

[duvessa]

Wyashol

[Bim]

H would be a good want to start with I think, something like Hryasha or Hilotep. I think it'd be a very different pronunciation from other gods and it's important for them to stay significantly different.

[Arrhythmia]

My suggestion is to go all the way and name him "I, Asshole".

[tasonir]

I think it's generally nice for a god to have a clear first syllable which can be the short form of the name: ie chei, kiku, oka, etc.

+1 for Hilotep (hilo), Wepwawet (Wep). Wepwawet is also just funny to say, and could lead to another abbreviation: WWW. Good thing that abbreviation hasn't been used before, it should be clear

If A wasn't taken we could have gone with what the original name really was: Alcohol.

[bisonbisonbison]

I'd go with Rue.

Just Rue or Rueblahblah, but I think rue as regret just about sums up the functioning of this god.

[archaeo]

I'm not crazy about the Iashol flavour, which feels pretty unfocused right now, though mechanically it's really interesting. My Clockwork Prince proposal wasn't properly updated, but it actually played with some of the same concepts Iashol's got. Since I doubt that proposal's going anywhere, it might make for an interesting "reskin."

Otherwise, I actually think a god name like "I, Foo" is kind of interesting and I don't hate it. Not "I, Asshole," obviously, but something in that form would be a little unusual. Maybe the goal is to become like the god by mutilating yourself? I don't know man. It's also just a bikeshed.

[Steel Neuron]

I wouldn't mind at all if you hijacked the name "Hijamseh" I had for my god proposal, as it was meant to sound vaguely Egyptian and Arabic.


By the way, he wouldn't mind some more feedback (end of shameless plug )

[Lasty]

I was already working on a mild retheming. Here's a take on it by Cerpin:

Once a human monk, [god name here] devoted itself to a life of asceticism and sacrifice. As it grew in enlightenment, it gradually relinquished each piece of its physical form, eventually reducing itself to an intangible spirit being. Not a god in the traditional sense, it rejects worship, serving only as a guide along the path of balance down which it once traveled. Followers of [god name here] may gain immense power, but only in proportion to what they are willing to give up.

The idea in the retheming is that Iashol isn't a classic god, but rather a spiritual guide that has achieved a godlike immaterial transcendence by practicing these rituals of sacrifice and power. As such, you don't exactly worship it, but instead follow down the path of transcendence that it shows you.

Edit: the text above doesn't hit the theme of gaining in exchange for sacrifice quite hard enough for me -- slightly too much nirvana, not quite enough lust for knowledge/power -- but I think it's a solid step in the right direction.

[wheals]

I don't really have any ideas for names, but I'd suggest not having the syllable "ash" in the name since not only is it somewhat confusing, the two gods are slightly similar in concept (you sacrifice freedom of slot-swapping for ash's boosts) and similar names tend to make them run together.

[bisonbisonbison]

I'm all for flavor, but I'm a little stuck on "the impersonal force of balance in the universe appreciates sacrifice so much that your loss of potions and a ring slot will help you blow shit up."

I'm thinking more along: sacrifice, unleashing of energy, pulling back the veil.

"Of all the gods, only Ru opposed creation. Not as folly, but as distraction. A hand, a voice, a skill - these are the traps of mortal existence. Initiates of Ru can open channels to the great powers underlying this illusory world by renouncing the meager fetters that bind them here. Ru does not bargain or forgive. Sacrifices, once made, are permanent. In exchange, Ru reveals the majesty of nonexistence to all who oppose this God's true worshippers."

[Lasty]

bisonbisonbison: The idea is more that gaining true power invariably requires sacrifice, and this god teaches you the secrets to streamline that process and get to power quickly -- you don't make the sacrifices to [foo], and [foo] doesn't care whether you make them or not. [foo] is more of a guide to your path of power (and enlightenment) than god you worship.

That said, I like your version a lot, and wouldn't be against going in that direction w/ it.

[bisonbisonbison]

bisonbisonbison: The idea is more that gaining true power invariably requires sacrifice, and this god teaches you the secrets to streamline that process and get to power quickly -- you don't make the sacrifices to [foo], and [foo] doesn't care whether you make them or not. [foo] is more of a guide to your path of power (and enlightenment) than god you worship.

That said, I like your version a lot, and wouldn't be against going in that direction w/ it.

I really like the piety gain concept, I was just more thinking of how "balance" as flavor wasn't clicking for me, because you essentially become a crippled ball of chaos wandering through the dungeon. But if the sacrifices you make immediately and permanently give you greater and greater access to a non-corporeal power, then the ascetic aspect just made me think of Maya in hinduism, and stripping away layers of illusion.

[tasonir]

Ru definitely wins for the shortest god name ever, and in a game with Cheibriados, Kikubaaqudgha and Yredelemnul, that is remarkable. If we go with the full version of Rue, that's also "street" in french. Rue is showing you the path, after all. Ru is more similar to Ra, and is easily connected to the egyptian theme that way. I'm voting for Ru.

[Lasty]

I added a poll to the first post -- please vote for your 1-3 favorite names. I'll probably use the winner of the poll.

[duvessa]

...you realize that "Wyashol" was a joke?

[Lasty]

Here's a revised take on bisonbisonbison's excellent god description:

Of all the gods, only [foo] opposed creation. Not as folly, but as distraction. A hand, a voice, a skill - these are the traps of mortal existence. Initiates of [foo] can open channels to the great powers underlying this illusory world by renouncing the meager fetters that bind them here. These sacrifices are not made to [foo], but rather given up freely and permanently. As the initiate's mortal attachments fade, [foo] gradually fills the initiate with the greater power underneath existence. Initiates will be able to stun and misdirect would-be attackers, punish those who harm them, replentish their mortal health and magic, and defy the laws of nature with a mighty leap. Advanced initiates will gain the ability to tear away the veil that separates false existence and true nonexistence from all who oppose them.

God titles:
-*: Mortal
0*: Questioner
1*: Initiate
2*: Seeker of Truth
3*: Walker of the Path
4*: Lifter of the Veil
5*: Drinker of Unreality
6*: Transcedent

[Lasty]

...you realize that "Wyashol" was a joke?

What's a poll without a joke option?