Proposal: Sif/Veh ability alteration

[BountyHunterSAx]

Proposal: Remove Vehumet's wizardry-like effect for conj. Replace it with a passive that will "reroll 1's" in conjuration damage calculations. Or grant a passive 5% boost to spell power for conj. Or something akin to that.

Proposal: Give Sif Muna the passive wizardry-like effect. BUT - have it only be active on skills you are actively training:

--> TO PREVENT SCUMMY PLAY: 'actively training' requires X amount of exp to be put in it in a row. When you turn it off, the wizardry effect is disabled and you have to put that initial investment in again. This amount should be very small, akin to killing 8-12 orcs or something. Or, alternatively, just make it cost piety to swap around and activate.

Rationale: Vehumet is the god of violent conflagration and destructive magics. NOT the god of wisdome, knowledge, and lore. He should focus on aiding in the blowing of shit up, *NOT* on the knowledge-side of it.

Sif Muna, on the other hand, is such a natural fit for a wizardry-like passive that I'm astonished it wasn't on him to begin with. It fits his theme, it fits his playstyle, it synergizes with his current spell-giving kit, it is trivial to code, etc.

Now, personally, I think a passive background "wizardry effect" offers very little gameplay choice. This on the ohter hand . . .it forces the player to make a choice: should I train multiple schools at once (a suboptimal pattern!) to keep my wizadry up? Can I afford to go without the wizardry for the moment because I *need* the conjurations raised pronto? Tloc is already high enough that I don't really want to train it. . but if I lose the wizardry on it then suddenly it's not enough. Etc. etc.



-AHMAD

[Amnesiac]

5% ._. Even enhancers give something like 50%...

[Igxfl]

I like the sound of Vehumet Conj enhancer and Sif wizardry. It seems to fit better thematically and goes well with Sif's generalist feel. I wouldn't limit SifWiz to currently trained skills though; even with a small XP delay it seems scummy.

[BountyHunterSAx]

Vehumet gives you mp back on kills, a bonus to range, a nice plethora of spells to use on a nice even ramp as you level up, and you're complaining that he doesn't givve you a 50% bonus to damage?

Hell, I'd be okay with just straight up removing his wizardry-effect and giving nothing back in its place. But no, it'd be good if it were replaced with a thematic damage boost. Personally I like the idea (thematically) that he just straight up refuses to let you deal low damage (hence guaranteed rerolls on all the '1s' for your 10dPowers etc.)

-AHMAD

[DracheReborn]

It was explained in the other (recent) Sif thread that you already get a form of wizardry with Sif, i.e. miscast protection. The effect of both is that it lets you cast high level spells earlier than you normally could.

Rationale: Vehumet is the god of violent conflagration and destructive magics. NOT the god of wisdome, knowledge, and lore. He should focus on aiding in the blowing of shit up, *NOT* on the knowledge-side of it.

Well, that's why Veh wizardy only applies to spells that lets you blow things up.

[Leafsnail]

I really don't like the "train this skill for wizardry" idea. You'd still get weird scummy behaviour - like maybe you'd switch to manual and try to make sure as little goes into the skill you don't want as possible. I don't really like wizardry that much on Sif either (because it makes you want to put less XP into magic), miscast protection is probably better.

It was explained in the other (recent) Sif thread that you already get a form of wizardry with Sif, i.e. miscast protection. The effect of both is that it lets you cast high level spells earlier than you normally could.

That's true, but I do think it's kindof bad in that it makes Sif and Vehumet more similar (Sif Muna lets you cast spells more safely with less skill invested. Vehumet lets you cast spells more safely with less skill invested). Making it so that Vehumet gives a spell power boost instead could make sense.

[some12fat2move]

Or grant a passive 5% boost to spell power for conj. Or something akin to that.

5% ._. Even enhancers give something like 50%...

you're complaining that he doesn't givve you a 50% bonus to damage?

Spellpower is a term used in-game (well, in the manual I think) to represent the potency at which you cast a spell. For damage-dealing spells, it does not translate exactly to the damage inflicted by the spell.

[BountyHunterSAx]

I'm aware of this, as well as with the stepdown function. It's why I specifically referenced the diceroling system.

[Senban]

Regardless of exact specifications I do like the idea of Sif for Wizardry / Veh for spell power/damage.
Maybe just dish out about +2 wiz per 3 stars worth of piety with diminishing returns if you stack it with rings, staffs or potions. Applying a cap based on the characters skills with the given spell also seems like a good idea although if you can't explain all that complicated stuff to the player clearly and without breaking the flow of the game it might not be worth it.

[archaeo]

The thing is, Sif already gives a quasi-Wiz bonus by protecting the player from miscasts. Like I said in the other thread, if this passive ability were better indicated in the interface, it would make it more apparent that Sif already allows players to cast spells much earlier than they would be able to otherwise.

As for the "reroll 1s" ability, I suggested this in a version of a Nemelex redesign, and those familiar with the code suggested it'd be a cumbersome thing to program. Vehumet's current conjurations-boosting passive abilities seem sufficient to me.

Which is all to say that I think the Sif vs. Veh (vs. Kiku) thing is pretty well balanced, currently, and the only changes I'd be enthusiastic about would involve reworking Sif's book-gifting mechanic.

[BountyHunterSAx]

Wizardry is useful in my mind for making my spells succeed, not for lessening the penalty i'd suffer if they'd die. If Sif Muna not only protected me from miscasts but also refunded my MP for miscasts, then I'd accept that this was truly quasi-wizardry.

As it stands? No, if I'm at 40% fail, Sif does NOT turn that to a 20. Miscast protection is not even close to the same benefit. The proof? I frequently find myself wearing 1-2 wizardry items as a sif-caster to get my key spells more reliable for a time.

-AHMAD

[archaeo]

I think Sif refunding MP or partial MP on a miscast is actually the best proposal I've heard for a Sif buff so far, even if I don't think it's necessary.