Proposal: Ru, god of balance and sacrifice


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 9

Joined: Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 16:47

Post Wednesday, 18th June 2014, 01:36

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Amilir/morg ... 112730.txt

Interesting. Various thoughts:

Cataclysm seems fine. It's quite strong, but it won't actually kill a horde of enemies--you have to have a plan to deal with them yourself, after softening up, which rather limits its use as a panic button.

Power Leap is a miniature controlled blink plus damage for exhaustion. Dammed useful, and I can't figure out why the others aren't using it much. Combined with the passive abilities, Iashol is pretty good for hit and run plans. Being a Felid helped of course, but Iashol would still let normal speed characters kite/run away from normal speed monsters.

Draw Out Power was a little more questionable. It's by no means a bad ability, but in tight situations, I generally preferred to Power Leap away and come back later. It just seems overshadowed most of the time, given that all three abilities use exhaustion.

The passives of course, are just plain nice.

Giving up potions caused at least one of my deaths. Overall, I found myself using potions earlier, since I could never be sure if I could use them at a critical juncture.

Free piety from being a monk is probably a bad idea. Monks being given a choice of sacrifice immediately would seem more appropriate.

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Arrhythmia

Dungeon Master

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Post Wednesday, 18th June 2014, 13:04

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I saw a report from SomethingAwful forums that Rod of the Swarm may cause a crash with Sacrifice Love. Has anyone else run into issues w/ Sacrifice Love?

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Tomb Titivator

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Post Wednesday, 18th June 2014, 16:50

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I just played my first Iashol game, a MiGl. Granted that's an "easy mode" combo -- I didn't want to start-scum to reach an altar -- but dang did it feel OP as soon as the aura kicked in. Having dangerous enemies skipping turns, going blind, and wandering aimlessly in confusion (all at the same time!) made it super easy to o-tab through almost all of D, Lair, and Orc. The power curve started to run out in Swamp, but I was already acting overconfident and lazy, so I splatted.

I liked some of the tactical uses of Power Leap, and Cataclysm seemed brutal. But I spent most of the game feeling like the passive aura gave me permission to ignore tactics entirely, so the active abilities didn't feel as interesting as I hoped -- maybe on another build they'd feel different.

Stoneskin, which I'd memorized, remained castable after I sacrificed Transmutations.

I stopped making sacrifices when I hit 6* piety, but I guess I wasn't maxed out because I kept getting new offers. I think there needs to be more transparency about the utility of further sacrifices at that point. An unspoiled player might assume that piety is maxed the moment you hit 6*; a spoiled player will wonder whether the piety reward from any further sacrifice will be fully useful or would take them over max piety and thus go partly to waste. But it seems to me that the abilities are already quite powerful at the 6* breakpoint, so sacrificing anything else just to make them a little bit stronger and not gain anything new would probably never be worth it.
Wins (Does not include my GrEE^Veh 15-runer...stupid experimental branch)

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Arrhythmia

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 02:13

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

The experimental server is caught up to all previous fixes now, as well as the fix I pushed for the rod of the swarm crash (a problem w/ the existing implementation of the Summon Swarm spell).

I just pushed some typo fixes, messages which describe how much piety a sacrifice will earn you, and scaled back the bonus piety for sacrificed skill points.

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Arrhythmia

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 02:26

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

tedric wrote:I spent most of the game feeling like the passive aura gave me permission to ignore tactics entirely, so the active abilities didn't feel as interesting as I hoped.

After playing through a ways, I agree with this analysis. Having (effectively) 20% haste at all times is just too absurdly good, and it makes it seem unnecessary to use tactics or effort. I'm working on a replacement * ability that should still be strong, but be more fun and less tactics-free.

tedric wrote:I stopped making sacrifices when I hit 6* piety, but I guess I wasn't maxed out because I kept getting new offers. I think there needs to be more transparency about the utility of further sacrifices at that point. An unspoiled player might assume that piety is maxed the moment you hit 6*; a spoiled player will wonder whether the piety reward from any further sacrifice will be fully useful or would take them over max piety and thus go partly to waste. But it seems to me that the abilities are already quite powerful at the 6* breakpoint, so sacrificing anything else just to make them a little bit stronger and not gain anything new would probably never be worth it.

The abilities scale pretty linearly with piety, so it's generally pretty good to get to max piety. That said, it is a decision that you aren't forced into -- if you want you can choose to never complete your sacrifices, and I think that should remain a valid option. I'm not against having better messaging, but I'm not immediately certain how to apply it. If you have a suggestion, I'm all ears -- keep in mind that other gods also have a big gap between 6* and max piety, so it wouldn't be bad to have the messaging for all gods.

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Arrhythmia

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 14:38

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

The current design of the replacement * ability is a scaling passive chance to cause enemies that try to attack you to instead do nothing (up to 10% chance) or attack themselves or another enemy (up to 3% chance). The theme of this ability would be overriding your opponents' wills with your power.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 18:56

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Just for clarification, the new * ability applies to attacks only, and not movement? does it apply to spellcasting, ranged weapons? If it applies to spells, what happens if a monster tries to do a summoning spell, and rolls the 3% chance to hit itself?

I'm hoping to finish up a non-experimental branch mummy soon, and then try a caster of iashol, since people seem to be doing more melee characters.

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 19:05

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

That's correct. A summoning spell would probably have to just be canceled instead of retargeted, since retargeting wouldn't apply. It could also summon friendly instead of hostile things . . . I haven't really thought that case through yet.

Edit: my guess is that conjurer/summoner types will enjoy Draw Out Power more than the melee-heavy builds did.

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Bim

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 19:43

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I like the idea of them randomly attacking another creature/themselves or doing nothing. I do somehow feel that more of the powers should be passive as replacements for permanently losing abilities - if Cataclysm does get seen as too strong (or clashes with Qazlols ability) then could it be replaced by a passive/permeanent?
2012 Winner of fewest proposed ideas implemented by devs.

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 20:45

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I would definitely consider that. Coming up with strong and helpful passives that don't step on existing content can be quite tricky, but I am definitely a fan of good passives. The original design had a passive at the 4* ability level instead of the current active ability -- though I quite like the current active ability in that slot.

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Bim

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 23:06

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

How about Gross Mutation for the final ability? It could give you a large mixture of good and bad mutations (more heavily weighted towards good and completely irremovable) and would be the ultimate act of sacrifice. You wouldn't necessarily ever have to choose it, but it'd always be there if you wanted to make the final sacrifice of the body.

Granted, it steps on Jiyva's toes a bit, but it's mutations are generally good and more monstrous, whereas Iashols would be more random.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 23:10

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

There's not really much point in adding an ability that nobody would ever, ever use.

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Bim

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 23:32

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I'd use it in a flash! Having the ability to get some good mutations at the cost of a few sacrifices seems pretty beneficial considering the good mutations you can get and the generally harmless bad ones. Granted, you'd have to work on the weighting between good and bad (60-40? 70-30?) but I think it could be interesting - especially if there was a special list of mutations.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 19th June 2014, 23:36

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Most bad mutations aren't that bad, yes, but some of them (teleportitis, berserkitis, especially blurry vision) are. There aren't any good mutations which have an impact that comes close to these 3.

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Bim

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Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 00:17

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

cerebovssquire wrote:Most bad mutations aren't that bad, yes, but some of them (teleportitis, berserkitis, especially blurry vision) are. There aren't any good mutations which have an impact that comes close to these 3.


Yeah blurry vision and teleportitis might need to be taken off the list as they'd be a bit too harsh (beserkitis is admittedly pretty bad too, although might be an ok trade off for others). I just feel like some sort of permanent sacrifice for permanent gain is needed for a final god ability, and I can't think of anything else which is as dramatic as mutations.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 01:15

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Okay, I'll revise my statement: There's not really much point in adding an ability that nobody who wants to win would ever, ever use.

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Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 12:38

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Sacrifices that impose randomized penalties are very much against the spirit of the design at the moment. The idea is that you know exactly what you're giving up when you make the choice to give it up; you may find that you have reason to regret it later, but you knew that was a possibility when you made the sacrifice.

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Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 18:30

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I wasn't initially aware that sac purity told you what mutation you would get before you confirm - I think I'll try saccing purity this run. That said, an ability/reward that gave you several mutations good and bad would be an ability that I'd take. Caveats: as lasty said, the player would be presented with exactly what they're going to get beforehand. You'd pick the mutation list to not include teleportitis, blurry vision, etc. If Iashol offered me robust 3 and regeneration 2 and rF-, I'd probably take that if I had a source of rF. In fact that'd probably be overpowered, but you get the idea. It isn't a no-brainer bad decision unless you make assumptions that it's going to stick you with random teleporting without offering you a confirmation.

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Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 19:36

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I got the sacrifice words option, took it, the confirmation message asked me if I was sure since I wouldn't be able to *drink* when threatened. It should be reading scrolls.

Still fairly early on in my caster run, but seems to be looking pretty good so far. I was tempted to sac arcana, I got hexes, air, and translocations. Of those three, I'll probably only use translocations, but I ultimately decided to keep them, I want my phase shift/blink/cblink.

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Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 19:59

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15-a0-1550-g6e7b783 (webtiles) character file.

tasonir the Thaumaturge (Deep Elf Conjurer)        Turns: 18427, Time: 01:15:47

HP  63/63        AC 22     Str  5      XL: 13   Next:  6%
MP  35/36        EV 18     Int 26      God: Iashol [*****.]
Gold 765         SH  5     Dex 15      Spells: 10 memorised,  1 level left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     a - +0,+1 mace (protect)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     F - +5 robe "Xuah" {MR+ SInv}
rNeg   . . .     rCorr    .     y - +0 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  .         rRot     .     Q - +2 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   .     G - +0 cloak
SustAb .         Warding  .     q - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (no boots)
Gourm  .                        X - amulet of faith
MR     ++...                    N - +3 ring of protection
                                w - ring of wizardry

@: horrified, very resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: slow healing 1, cannot read while threatened, no stealth, cannot use devices,
fear blood
a: Draw Out Power, Power Leap, Cataclysm, Renounce Religion


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Iashol.
Iashol is extremely pleased with you.
You are hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 16 of its levels.

You have collected 1209 gold pieces.
You have spent 444 gold pieces at shops.


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You heal slowly when monsters are visible.
You cannot read scrolls while threatened.
You cannot be stealthy.
You cannot study or use magical devices.
You are terrified of blood.


   Skills:
 - Level 9.6 Dodging
 + Level 4.7 Shields
 - Level 13.5 Spellcasting
 + Level 11.9 Conjurations
 - Level 13.3 Charms
 + Level 10.7 Fire Magic


You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
b - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           ######..     1%          4    None
c - Iskenderun's Battles  Conj/Chrm      ######..     1%          5    None
d - Fireball              Conj/Fire      ######....   1%          5    None
e - Bolt of Fire          Conj/Fire      ######....   4%          6    ####...
f - Haste                 Chrm           ######..     1%          6    ####...
g - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ######....   1%          3    None
h - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       1%          2    None
i - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          3    None
j - Flight                Chrm/Air       ######....   1%          3    None


Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +0,+1 mace of protection (weapon)
 b - a +0 blowgun
Missiles
 T - 12 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 q - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 y - a +0 buckler of protection (worn)
 B - a +2 robe of cold resistance
 F - the +5 robe "Xuah" (worn) {MR+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 G - a +0 cloak (worn)
 P - a +2 robe of positive energy
 Q - a +2 hat (worn)
Comestibles
 d - 5 beef jerkies
 i - 5 meat rations
 m - 8 bread rations
 r - 7 fruits
 A - 3 slices of pizza
 D - 2 royal jellies
Scrolls
 g - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon III
 k - 7 scrolls of amnesia
 p - 12 scrolls of teleportation
 t - 3 scrolls of blinking
 u - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 v - 7 scrolls of enchant weapon I
 z - 3 scrolls of fog
 E - 4 scrolls of fear
 L - 3 scrolls of enchant armour
 R - 2 scrolls of vulnerability
 S - a scroll of enchant weapon II
 U - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
Jewellery
 h - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand
 w - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
 C - a +1 ring of intelligence
 N - a +3 ring of protection (right hand)
 W - the amulet of Toevud {+Rage rC+}
   (You took it off a hobgoblin on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of rage]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It lets you go berserk.
 X - an amulet of faith (around neck)
Potions
 e - 4 potions of restore abilities
 f - 2 potions of invisibility
 l - 5 potions of might
 n - 6 potions of curing
 s - 2 potions of agility
 x - 3 potions of haste
 J - a potion of heal wounds
 M - a metallic black potion
 O - a potion of berserk rage
 V - a slimy black potion
Books
 c - a book of Conjurations
 j - a book of Clouds
 o - a book of Changes
 I - a book of Fire
 K - a book of Wizardry
 Y - a book of Air
 Z - a book of Necromancy
Miscellaneous
 H - a lantern of shadows


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (13/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (0/4) D:9
   Lair (2/8) D:11         Vaults (0/5) D:13       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Iashol
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Sif Muna
Vehumet
Xom
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 }   D:9 (}   D:11 ?   D:12 ?

Annotations:
D:2 1 exclusion, Sigmund
D:3 twig1919's ghost, average FoFi

..............##...
>.#......#...........
..........#....+......
..........#...##.......
....P..........#.......#
..PP......#.............
....+.#P..#.%..#........
 ...#####..##...........#
      ...#.....§@.......#
     ..................P#
     ...................
      ..........(......#
       ................#
        ..##...........
         # ##......##.
            ......#.
              ....


There are no monsters in sight!

Message History

The spiny frog closely misses you.
Unknown command.
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Magic Dart
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - spiny frog
Aim: a spiny frog (severely wounded)
The magic dart hits the spiny frog.
The spiny frog is severely wounded.
Your battlesphere fires!
The barrage of energy hits the spiny frog.
The spiny frog is almost dead.
The adder closely misses you. The spiny frog misses you.
The adder closely misses you.
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Iskenderun's Mystic Blast
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - spiny frog
Aim: a spiny frog (almost dead)
The orb of energy hits the spiny frog.
You kill the spiny frog!
The orb of energy explodes! The mystic blast hits the adder.
You kill the adder!
You are horrified by the sight of blood!
Your battlesphere fires!
Unknown command.
You swap places.
m - 8 bread rations (gained 1)
You start resting.
Your battlesphere wavers and loses cohesion.


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Short sword       |     5 |       |     4 |       |       ||     9
       Dagger            |       |    31 |     4 |       |       ||    35
       Mace              |       |       |    25 |   193 |       ||   218
 Cast: Magic Dart        |    82 |   158 |   205 |   360 |     5 ||   810
       Iskenderun's Myst |       |    15 |    67 |   195 |     2 ||   279
       Iskenderun's Batt |       |       |    17 |    64 |     2 ||    83
       Fireball          |       |       |       |    19 |     2 ||    21
       Haste             |       |       |       |     4 |       ||     4
       Bolt of Fire      |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Invok: Sacrifice Stealth |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Sacrifice Artific |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Sacrifice Words   |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Sacrifice Purity  |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Sacrifice Arcana  |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Sacrifice Sanity  |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     3 |       |       ||     3
  Use: Potion            |       |     3 |       |     3 |       ||     6
       Scroll            |       |     6 |     6 |    21 |       ||    33


Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | tasonir, the Deep Elf Conjurer, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 5/5
   167 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 3/8
   501 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
   721 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 9/11
   778 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting
   788 | D:2      | Noticed Sigmund
  1142 | D:2      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  1280 | D:2      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  1595 | D:2      | Noticed Ijyb
  1603 | D:2      | Killed Ijyb
  1603 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 18/24 MP: 6/16
  1687 | D:2      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  1771 | D:3      | Noticed twig1919's ghost (average FoFi)
  1779 | D:2      | Learned a level 4 spell: Iskenderun's Mystic Blast
  2041 | D:3      | HP: 1/24 [twig1919's ghost (10)]
  2383 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  2410 | D:3      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  2696 | D:4      | Noticed Blork the orc
  2816 | D:4      | Killed Blork the orc
  2816 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 12/28 MP: 3/20
  3168 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting
  3168 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Conjurations
  3179 | D:4      | Learned a level 5 spell: Iskenderun's Battlesphere
  3314 | D:4      | Found Xufups' Gadget Shoppe.
  3348 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
  3368 | D:4      | Reached skill level 2 in Charms
  3368 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 22/32 MP: 6/22
  3732 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3738 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  3738 | D:4      | Reached skill level 3 in Charms
  3918 | D:4      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  3929 | D:4      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  4010 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Conjurations
  4010 | D:4      | Reached skill level 4 in Charms
  4050 | D:4      | Bought a lantern of shadows for 220 gold pieces
  4076 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4100 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 1/24
  4266 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
  4417 | D:5      | Noticed Milton's ghost (experienced MiBe)
  4450 | D:5      | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball
  4477 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Charms
  4796 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Conjurations
  4818 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Charms
  4825 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/41 MP: 14/25
  4901 | D:5      | Killed Milton's ghost
  4901 | D:5      | Reached skill level 9 in Conjurations
  4901 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Charms
  4905 | D:5      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  5245 | D:6      | Reached skill level 9 in Charms
  5728 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  5741 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  5780 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Iashol the Incorporeal
  5800 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Charms
  5882 | D:6      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  5885 | D:6      | Noticed Dowan
  6119 | D:6      | Noticed Duvessa
  6122 | D:6      | Killed Duvessa
  6122 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
  6278 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 45/45 MP: 14/27
  6378 | D:6      | HP: 5/45 [centaur/arrow (9)]
  6649 | D:6      | Killed Dowan
  6704 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Fire Magic
  6828 | D:6      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  6828 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting
  6828 | D:6      | Reached skill level 2 in Fire Magic
  6836 | D:6      | Learned a level 6 spell: Bolt of Fire
  7327 | D:7      | Reached skill level 3 in Fire Magic
  7388 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Spellcasting
  7617 | D:7      | Noticed Menkaure
  7621 | D:7      | Killed Menkaure
  7621 | D:7      | Reached skill level 4 in Fire Magic
  7786 | D:7      | Noticed tedric's ghost (experienced GrEE)
  7805 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Conjurations
  8281 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Spellcasting
  8362 | D:7      | Identified a wand of teleportation {zapped: 1} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  8371 | D:7      | Killed tedric's ghost
  8371 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
  8371 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 42/50 MP: 10/30
  8414 | D:7      | Gained mutation: You cannot study or use magical devices. [Iashol sacrifice]
  8414 | D:7      | Acquired Iashol's first power
  8441 | D:7      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  8441 | D:7      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  9267 | D:8      | Noticed Eustachio
  9272 | D:8      | Killed Eustachio
  9454 | D:8      | Learned a level 6 spell: Haste
 10039 | D:9      | Reached skill level 11 in Charms
 10265 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 10266 | D:9      | Found Psomubib's Weapon Boutique.
 10634 | D:9      | Gained mutation: You cannot be stealthy. [Iashol sacrifice]
 10634 | D:9      | Reduced skill Stealth to level 0
 10634 | D:9      | Acquired Iashol's second power
 10756 | D:9      | Reached skill level 12 in Charms
 10890 | D:9      | Reached skill level 13 in Charms
 11291 | D:9      | Found Sina's Gadget Emporium.
 11295 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 11297 | D:9      | Reached skill level 6 in Fire Magic
 11297 | D:9      | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
 11299 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 54/54 MP: 0/32
 11577 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 11698 | D:10     | Got a colourful robe
 11704 | D:10     | Identified the +0 robe of Exeog {+Blink +Rage rN+} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 12348 | D:10     | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
 12597 | D:10     | Got a brightly glowing buckler
 12601 | D:10     | Identified the cursed +0 buckler "Penorgh" {Dex-2 Int+3} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 12658 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 12663 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 12741 | D:10     | Gained mutation: You heal slowly when monsters are visible. [Iashol sacrifice]
 12741 | D:10     | Acquired Iashol's third power
 12749 | D:10     | Noticed Erolcha
 12755 | D:10     | Killed Erolcha
 12755 | D:10     | Reached skill level 7 in Fire Magic
 13074 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 13178 | D:11     | Noticed Nessos
 13185 | D:11     | Killed Nessos
 13185 | D:11     | Reached skill level 11 in Spellcasting
 13346 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 13519 | D:11     | Found Curalaamm's Magic Scroll Boutique.
 13523 | D:11     | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
 13523 | D:11     | Bought a scroll of amnesia for 38 gold pieces
 13523 | D:11     | Bought a scroll of magic mapping for 38 gold pieces
 13773 | D:11     | Got a wavering graven amulet
 13777 | D:11     | Identified the amulet of Toevud {+Rage rC+} (You took it off a hobgoblin on level 11 of the Dungeon)
 13905 | D:12     | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 13910 | D:12     | Killed a four-headed hydra
 13910 | D:12     | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
 13910 | D:12     | Reached skill level 8 in Fire Magic
 14566 | D:12     | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
 14566 | D:12     | Reached skill level 12 in Spellcasting
 14580 | D:12     | Gained mutation: You cannot read scrolls while threatened. [Iashol sacrifice]
 14580 | D:12     | Acquired Iashol's fourth power
 14845 | D:12     | Found Mnoanim's Magic Scroll Shop.
 14850 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of identify for 28 gold pieces
 14850 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of identify for 28 gold pieces
 14850 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of identify for 28 gold pieces
 14850 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 42 gold pieces
 15260 | D:13     | Reached skill level 9 in Fire Magic
 15440 | D:12     | Killed an unseen horror
 15440 | D:12     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 46/59 MP: 22/35
 15497 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 15563 | D:13     | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
 15569 | D:13     | Noticed Sonja
 15578 | D:13     | Killed Sonja
 15647 | D:13     | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 15652 | D:13     | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 15893 | D:13     | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 16030 | D:13     | Reached skill level 13 in Spellcasting
 16316 | D:13     | Got an encrusted leather armour
 16323 | D:13     | Identified the cursed -4 leather armour of Divine Intervention {Stlth++} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
 16356 | D:13     | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging
 16441 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 16575 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Fire Magic
 16701 | Lair:1   | Noticed Gastronok
 16710 | Lair:1   | Killed Gastronok
 16717 | Lair:1   | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 16957 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 17045 | Lair:1   | Noticed Fannar
 17051 | Lair:1   | Killed Fannar
 17051 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 2 in Shields
 17055 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 3 in Shields
 17399 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 4 in Shields
 17475 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You are terrified of blood. [Iashol sacrifice]
 17475 | Lair:1   | Acquired Iashol's fifth power
 17647 | Lair:1   | Noticed an ice dragon
 17797 | Lair:1   | Killed an ice dragon
 18044 | Lair:1   | Got a steaming robe
 18093 | Lair:1   | Identified the +5 robe "Xuah" {MR+ SInv} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 18104 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 46/63 MP: 26/36
 18222 | Lair:2   | Noticed Nergalle
 18226 | Lair:2   | Killed Nergalle
 18241 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 18245 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
 18249 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 3 spell: Flight

Vanquished Creatures
  Gastronok (Lair:1)
  Fannar (Lair:1)
  2 hydras
  Nessos (D:11)
  An ice dragon (Lair:1)
  Nergalle (Lair:2)
  Erolcha (D:10)
  An unseen horror (D:12)
  An ice statue (Lair:1)
  A hill giant (D:10)
  A manticore (D:13)
  2 cyclopes (D:13)
  6 spiny frogs
  The ghost of tedric the Geomancer, an experienced GrEE of Iashol (D:7)
  The ghost of Milton the Skirmisher, an experienced MiBe of Trog (D:5)
  A gargoyle (D:13)
  A komodo dragon (Lair:1)
  A hydra zombie (D:12)
  A fire drake (Lair:2)
  3 trolls
  3 blink frogs (Lair:1)
  3 polar bears (Lair:1)
  Sonja (D:13)
  Prince Ribbit (D:6)
  2 two-headed ogres
  A slime creature (D:10)
  2 wyverns (D:13)
  A basilisk (Lair:1)
  A shadow (D:12)
  9 yaks (D:9)
  A deep elf mage (D:12)
  5 hippogriffs
  Eustachio (D:8)
  11 ugly things
  A yak (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  A hungry ghost (D:11)
  Menkaure (D:7)
  4 porcupines
  A soldier ant (D:8)
  8 ice beasts
  5 orc warriors
  3 phantoms
  7 ogres
  A necrophage (D:9)
  8 centaurs
  Duvessa (D:6)
  3 crocodiles
  2 brain worms (D:13)
  A big kobold (D:7)
  A cyclops zombie (D:13)
  Blork the orc (D:4)
  A gnoll sergeant (D:10)
  A wyvern zombie (D:11)
  14 giant frogs
  3 scorpions
  A cyclops skeleton (D:9)
  A troll zombie (D:9)
  5 wights (D:7)
  6 killer bees (D:12)
  2 quasits
  14 crimson imps
  A centaur zombie (D:7)
  Dowan (D:6)
  3 goliath beetles
  3 orc priests
  A centaur skeleton (D:4)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:5)
  Crazy Yiuf (D:4)
  10 jellies
  14 hounds
  11 worker ants
  14 orc wizards
  6 iguanas
  Ijyb (D:2)
  A crocodile skeleton (D:10)
  12 gnolls
  An orc zombie (D:8)
  15 adders
  5 green rats (Lair:1)
  An inept feature mimic (D:9)
  2 worms (D:4)
  A giant mite (D:5)
  4 shadow imps
  4 white imps
  An orc skeleton (D:9)
  21 oozes
  40 orcs
  2 ball pythons
  A bat skeleton (D:4)
  A giant cockroach (D:5)
  18 hobgoblins
  18 jackals
  16 kobolds
  5 quokkas
  17 bats
  5 giant geckos
  6 giant newts
  5 giant spores
  A gnoll skeleton (D:7)
  17 goblins
  A goblin skeleton (D:4)
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:4)
  A kobold zombie (D:7)
  21 rats
  21 ballistomycetes
  2 fungi (D:4)
502 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A hound (D:5)
  An adder (D:5)
  A giant spore (D:8)
  A fungus (D:10)
4 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 506 creatures vanquished


The run so far, up to level 13. Question: how does amulet of faith work now? I thought it was supposed to do nothing? I wear-ID'ed one, and am not sure if taking it off or leaving it on is the right thing to do. Did you finish the implementation of faster sacrifices, with no change in your actual piety score?

I'm not sure if taking sac sanity was a good move - I didn't like the other options at all. I probably should have taken nothing. The main problem is you have to keep checking your spell menu to see if it's safe to cast spells. This can be tedious. Maybe switching it to be -spellpower would be better than increasing your chances that you randomly blow yourself up with miscasts?


  Code:
Invok: Sacrifice Stealth |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Sacrifice Artific |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Sacrifice Words   |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Sacrifice Purity  |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Sacrifice Arcana  |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Sacrifice Sanity  |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1


The action table seems to count if you just started to sac something, and then canceled it on the confirmation. I was just checking what schools I would lose on arcana, I haven't actually done it. Is there a way we can show the schools in the ability before you invoke it? Sacrifice Arcana (hexes, transmutations, air)? It might be too long to fit?

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Arrhythmia, Lasty

Dungeon Master

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Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 20:10

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Right now, "faith does nothing, so you can safely remove it. I'm open to having Horror affect spellpower instead of wizardry . . . I think also the -wizardry effect is more significant than slaying ATM, so I'll probably either increase slaying penalty or decrease wizardry penalty.

Showing all the schools in the (a)bility menu is almost certainly not going to fit. It may be possible to get the current ones added to the ability description, but I'd have to get some advice from the developers on how to achieve that without breaking things.

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Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 21:05

Re: What causes blood spills?

{Mod note: Spliced this and the following two posts from a different thread in advice, added the bit in brackets below for clarification. — a_i}

The fact that this topic [What causes blood spills?] exists is a good example of why I think a god making you avoid creating blood is a bad idea, particularly since the god's creator (!) had to look up what that meant.

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Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 22:46

Re: What causes blood spills?

crate wrote:The fact that this topic exists is a good example of why I think a god making you avoid creating blood is a bad idea, particularly since the god's creator (!) had to look up what that meant.

But you'd be wrong: Sacrifice Sanity is currently the best sacrifice that the god has. It creates tactical decisions which are both unique and interesting. You need to move on to new areas when your current area becomes too blood soaked. The penalties are small but add up over time, there is no breakpoint where it suddenly becomes impossible to fight. Most of the time it isn't terribly harsh, as one singular sacrifice shouldn't be, but it explictly prevents repeated use of the same choke point/kill hole, and requires that you move on to new and interesting territory. It may not solve the kill hole problem entirely, simply because you can reduce your LOS to such a small area that even when those 6 or so tiles have blood on them, it still is only a medium horror effect, but it's one of the few things that can reduce how absurdly ideal that situation is.

I do think the magic penalty should be shifted from anti-wizardry to -spellpower, but aside from that, it's really elegant and clearly communicated to the player. Maybe there's an issue with blood stains being harder to see on console, but hey, #tilesreasons. There's a status light which changes color to let you know how much blood is around.

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Post Friday, 20th June 2014, 22:54

Re: What causes blood spills?

tasonir: the problem is design-related, not gameplay-related. It should not rely on such a weird and obscure mechanic as creating blood.

For one easy fix, just make it count corpses instead of count blood. Works similarly in some ways, but everyone knows how corpses are created. Or do something else. It shouldn't use blood.

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Post Saturday, 21st June 2014, 07:38

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Crate Easy fix: make taking animate skeleton remove all downsides to sacrifice sanity and return you to 0 penalty for spending one mana. Blood works better. And blood is fairly consistent, it's still capped by the monster health, you can't spray your entire LOS. Probably the melee weapons should have their blood factors adjusted to be somewhat more even. But really the only rule you need to know as a player is that hitting things hard will make blood, and if you sac sanity, you need to move to a new area when it gets too bloody.

I wouldn't mind if blood timed out, but letting animate skeleton/dead trivialize the mechanic isn't an improvement.

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Post Saturday, 21st June 2014, 08:39

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

But really the only rule you need to know as a player is that hitting things hard will make blood

If that were actually the case, this wouldnt be a problem (and if this is the desired goal, I would suggest disconnecting the effect from blood entirely and just making it so "hitting enemies hard" triggers the sanity thing. If you care about player bleeding then you can also make it trigger on the player getting hit hard).

A couple minutes of testing in wizmode shows: ranged weapons never make blood, apparently (yep); many spells don't make blood, maces make significantly less blood than other weapon types, as does unarmed ... unless you have claws or use certain (but not all forms) ... obviously you can get this from the code too ... I do not understand why this behaviour is deemed good.

Also, this is really obnoxious since you are not allowed to fight in the same place twice. Possibly this is the desire, but I hope you can see why this gets very tedious, especially since so many monsters in crawl are speed 10 (or slower), and I do not think this is good design.

So if there's some rational explanation for why blood should actually be used in this fashion, I would love to hear it; I cannot think of such a reason myself.

(You're also of course punishing ignite blood demonspawn for no reason, but there's precedent for that with demonic guardian ... of course there's also a different precedent with demonic guardian (suppressing it) ... and of course eventually the interaction went away entirely.)

edit: also in console it's really hard to figure out which tile actually has blood sometimes (particularly when it's covered by an item) (though I guess | works for that, but most players don't know about |, but then Q pretty much demands you learn it so...)

edit again: ok wow after trying this, yeah, the "you can't fight here any more" part of this is really unacceptable gameplay this needs to change
Last edited by crate on Saturday, 21st June 2014, 10:30, edited 3 times in total.

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Post Saturday, 21st June 2014, 10:10

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Some bugs or maybe-bugs:

I had monsters fumble before I hit 1* piety and got the message that they would do so.
Sacrifice Love doesn't make allies you already have go hostile (at least, not zombies/skeletons).
The -MR sacrifice should be -40 MR since all other MR-changing items/etc are now in multiples of 40. edit: and just say it gives MR- instead of MR -40, since nowhere else does crawl tell you these numbers in-game.

Power leap should not let you target a monster, since you cannot jump there.

I got this message when I sacrificed charms/tmut/ice:
  Code:
You can no longer study or cast Charms magic.
Your memory of nonexistent spell unravels.

I guess this is the same bug reported earlier (I had Regen spell memorized)?
Last edited by crate on Saturday, 21st June 2014, 19:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Saturday, 21st June 2014, 17:19

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

On the numbers behind sanity - the anti-wiz can get a bit extreme in some places that are prone to being murderfests. on orc 4 I had two stairs within LOS and through all of the pulling and stairdancing, I managed to get a character with ~15 spellcasting and 13 conjurations to have a 52% failure rate on magic dart. Yes, half the area was a bloodstain, but still. Maybe a max cap around 5-10 bloodstains? Also, still recommending it be -spellpower over -wizardry.

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Post Saturday, 21st June 2014, 19:08

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15-a0-1550-g6e7b783 (webtiles) character file.

150808 tasonir the Eclecticist (level 16, -2/92 HPs)
             Began as a Deep Elf Conjurer on June 20, 2014.
             Was the Champion of Iashol.
             Shot with an arrow by Vashnia (7 damage)
             ... on Level 3 of the Snake Pit on June 21, 2014.
             The game lasted 03:29:59 (46639 turns).

tasonir the Eclecticist (Deep Elf Conjurer)        Turns: 46639, Time: 03:29:59

HP  -2/92        AC 19     Str  5      XL: 16   Next: 99%
MP  16/40        EV 18     Int 27 (28) God: Iashol [******]
Gold 742         SH  5     Dex 15      Spells: 12 memorised,  1 level left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     a - +7,+5 bastard sword (flame)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     F - +5 robe "Xuah" {MR+ SInv}
rNeg   . . .     rCorr    .     y - +0 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  +         rRot     .     Q - +2 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   .     Y - +1 cloak {rPois}
SustAb .         Warding  .     G - +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Slay+5}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     S - +1 pair of boots
Gourm  .                        W - amulet of Toevud {+Rage rC+}
MR     +++..                    N - +3 ring of protection
                                g - ring of protection from magic

@: extremely horrified, regenerating (expiring), repel missiles, extremely
resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: deformed body, deterioration 1, slow healing 1, cannot drink while
threatened, cannot read while threatened, no stealth, cannot use devices, fear
blood, take more damage 1, have slow reflexes 1
a: Draw Out Power, Power Leap, Cataclysm, Renounce Religion


You were on level 3 of the Snake Pit.
You worshipped Iashol.
Iashol was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and saw 31 of its levels.

You collected 3116 gold pieces.
You spent 2374 gold pieces at shops.


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body.
Your body is slowly deteriorating.
You heal slowly when monsters are visible.
You cannot drink potions while threatened.
You cannot read scrolls while threatened.
You cannot be stealthy.
You cannot study or use magical devices.
You are terrified of blood.
You take slightly more damage. (-3 AC)
You have somewhat slow reflexes. (-3 EV)


   Skills:
 - Level 7.4 Fighting
 + Level 11.1 Long Blades
 - Level 13.6 Dodging
 - Level 5.0 Shields
 - Level 16.7 Spellcasting
 - Level 14.6 Conjurations
 - Level 13.3 Charms
 - Level 13.7 Fire Magic


You had one spell level left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
b - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           #######.     3%          4    None
c - Iskenderun's Battles  Conj/Chrm      #######.     5%          5    None
d - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #######...   5%          5    None
e - Bolt of Fire          Conj/Fire      #######...   11%         6    ###....
f - Haste                 Chrm           #######.     11%         6    ###....
g - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ######....   7%          3    None
h - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       5%          2    None
i - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #######.     2%          3    None
j - Flight                Chrm/Air       ######....   7%          3    None
k - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          30%         7    #####..
l - Ring of Flames        Chrm/Fire      #######...   34%         7    #####..


Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +7,+5 bastard sword of flaming (weapon)
 k - a +0 blowgun
Missiles
 T - 17 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 y - a +0 buckler of protection (worn)
 B - a +2 robe of cold resistance
 F - the +5 robe "Xuah" (worn) {MR+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 G - the +3 pair of gauntlets of War (worn) {Slay+5}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+5).
 P - the +2 cloak of Jelai {MR++ SInv}
   (You found it on level 15 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 Q - a +2 hat (worn)
 S - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 X - the +3 leather armour "Qitulit" {rElec}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
 Y - a +1 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
Comestibles
 d - 8 beef jerkies
 i - 8 meat rations
 m - 14 bread rations
 r - 105 fruits
Scrolls
 p - 17 scrolls of teleportation
 q - 2 scrolls of identify
 t - 2 scrolls of blinking
 u - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 v - 5 scrolls of enchant weapon I
 z - 7 scrolls of fog
 C - a scroll of amnesia
 E - 3 scrolls of fear
 L - 4 scrolls of enchant armour
 U - 6 scrolls of magic mapping
 V - a scroll of holy word
Jewellery
 b - a +5 ring of intelligence
 g - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
 h - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand
 w - an uncursed ring of wizardry
 I - the amulet of Ghamiemp {rMut Str-4 Int+2}
   (You acquired it on level 2 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   [amulet of resist mutation]
   
   It protects you from mutation.
   It affects your strength (-4).
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
 M - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 N - a +3 ring of protection (right hand)
 W - the amulet of Toevud (around neck) {+Rage rC+}
   (You took it off a hobgoblin on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of rage]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It lets you go berserk.
Potions
 c - a potion of cure mutation
 e - 4 potions of restore abilities
 f - 2 potions of invisibility
 l - 7 potions of might
 n - 17 potions of curing
 o - 2 potions of resistance
 s - 3 potions of agility
 x - 3 potions of haste
 J - 5 potions of heal wounds
 O - a potion of berserk rage
 Z - a potion of flight
Books
 j - a book of Clouds
 A - a book of Debilitation
 K - a book of Wizardry
 R - a book of Death
Miscellaneous
 H - a lantern of shadows


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:9
    Elf (0/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:11         Shoals (0/5) Lair:4
  Snake (3/5) Lair:4        Slime (0/6) Lair:8       Vaults (0/5) D:13
 Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Iashol
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 }   D:9 (}   D:11 ?   D:12 ?   D:14 !   Orc:4 (}[[

Annotations:
D:2 1 exclusion, Sigmund
D:3 twig1919's ghost, average FoFi
Snake:3 Vashnia

#....###....####.^###.#......#...
##..##.#...##....)#..)########...
...##..###.#.*....#>.).(#.)......
####......(......##...#.###).....
#......####......#....#...)......
.......#..#......#....#..######..
......##..##)....N....#..#....##.
.....##.........)#....####.....##
######.....#####@#.......##....#.
..#......#.#.....#........#..#.##
.)#....[##.(.....#........#.##...
..###..##.......####......###....
....#..#........#..#.#.....#.....
....##.#(.....###....#.....#####.
.......########.#....###.###.....
..###....#.....>#......#.#.......
###.#....#......#........#.#.....


You could see Vashnia.

Message History

Vashnia is heavily wounded.
Vashnia shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you!!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The arrow burns you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * x2
Vashnia is illuminated in retribution by your aura!
Unknown command.
Use which ability? (? or * to list)
Aiming: Delayed Fireball
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - Vashnia
Aim: Vashnia, wielding a longbow of flaming and wearing a glowing naga barding (heavily wounded, softly glowing, shrouded)
The fireball explodes! The fireball engulfs Vashnia.
Vashnia is severely wounded.
Casting: Bolt of Fire
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Bolt of Fire
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - Vashnia
Aim: Vashnia, wielding a longbow of flaming and wearing a glowing naga barding (severely wounded, softly glowing, shrouded)
The bolt of fire hits Vashnia.
Vashnia is almost dead.
Your skin is crawling a little less now.
Your battlesphere fires!
The barrage of energy hits Vashnia.
Vashnia is almost dead.
Vashnia mumbles some strange words.
Magically, Vashnia shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you!!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The arrow burns you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You die...


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Short sword       |     5 |       |     4 |       |       |       ||     9
       Dagger            |       |    31 |     4 |       |       |       ||    35
       Mace              |       |       |    25 |   193 |    50 |       ||   268
       Bastard sword     |       |       |       |       |   219 |    85 ||   304
       Scimitar          |       |       |       |       |    70 |       ||    70
 Cast: Magic Dart        |    82 |   158 |   205 |   360 |   404 |     6 ||  1215
       Iskenderun's Myst |       |    15 |    67 |   195 |   663 |   250 ||  1190
       Iskenderun's Batt |       |       |    17 |    64 |   124 |    28 ||   233
       Fireball          |       |       |       |    19 |    86 |    23 ||   128
       Haste             |       |       |       |     4 |     6 |     1 ||    11
       Bolt of Fire      |       |       |       |     1 |     3 |     4 ||     8
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |     6 |     5 ||    11
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
       Flight            |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Delayed Fireball  |       |       |       |       |       |     6 ||     6
       Ring of Flames    |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
Invok: Sacrifice Stealth |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Sacrifice Artific |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Sacrifice Words   |       |       |       |     2 |       |       ||     2
       Sacrifice Purity  |       |       |       |     2 |     3 |     1 ||     6
       Sacrifice Arcana  |       |       |       |     2 |     1 |       ||     3
       Sacrifice Sanity  |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Sacrifice Health  |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
       Draw Out Power    |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Sacrifice Essence |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Power Leap        |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
       Sacrifice Drink   |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
 Abil: Release Delayed F |       |       |       |       |       |     6 ||     6
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     3 |       |       |       ||     3
  Use: Potion            |       |     3 |       |     3 |     1 |       ||     7
       Scroll            |       |     6 |     6 |    21 |    13 |    19 ||    65
 Stab: Paralysed         |       |       |       |       |    16 |     7 ||    23
       Distracted        |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1

Vault maps used:
D:1:      minmay_arrival_jagged
D:2:      nicolae_gozag_cash_rules_everything_around_me,
          lemuel_coloured_pillars_altar, grunt_dithmenos_smoke, uniq_iyjb,
          uniq_sigmund
D:3:      grunt_qazlal_clouds
D:4:      kennysheep_the_goblin_king, serial_shops, kennysheep_mini_moat,
          first_bread, kennysheep_opposing_triangles, uniq_crazy_yiuf_cottage,
          uniq_blork_the_orc
D:5:      elyvilon_altar_2
D:6:      minmay_temple_entry_statues_pillars,
          nicolae_ossuary_entry_false_entrances, uniq_duvessa,
          uniq_prince_ribbit1
D:7:      gammafunk_temple_overflow_elements, minmay_fire_ice_demons,
          uniq_menkaure
D:8:      uniq_eustachio
D:9:      orc_david_3, serial_shops, shop_fountains
D:10:     lemuel_slime, uniq_erolcha
D:11:     dpeg_lair_monsters, serial_shops, nicolae_shop_behind_doors,
          uniq_nessos
D:12:     serial_shops, shop
D:13:     uniq_sonja
D:14:     serial_shops, nicolae_shop_stone, minmay_misc_feat_rugged,
          blue_anna_alchemist, hangedman_abyss_or_decor_lesser_grid,
          uniq_josephine, uniq_urug
D:15:     gammafunk_depths_entry_grave, dk_noncrumbling_3, uniq_frances
Temple:   water_room_temple_a_12
Orc:1:    lemuel_statue_altar
Orc:2:    nicolae_orc_sculptors_studio
Orc:3:    nicolae_orc_pool_cavern, uniq_maurice
Orc:4:    st_orc_rangers, trog_book
Lair:1:   ice2_lemuel, uniq_gastronok, uniq_fannar
Lair:2:   nicolae_lair_grove_arrangements, uniq_nergalle
Lair:3:   serial_bayou_shore_a, lemuel_fruit_fields, uniq_snorg
Lair:4:   elwin_shoals_entry_rocks, minmay_snake_entry_guardpost_small,
          minivault_24, beast_lair_carwin_1, uniq_maud, uniq_erica
Lair:5:   st_stairs_11, serial_bayou_shore_b, infiniplex_staircase_pool,
          grunt_megastairs_4, serial_bayou_shore_b, lemuel_fruit_tree,
          serial_bayou_shore_b
Lair:7:   lemuel_yak_island, infiniplex_staircase_pool_2
Lair:8:   wormcave, hangedman_lair_in_review, slime_dummy, grunt_megastairs_3
Snake:2:  spider_trap, uniq_aizul
Snake:3:  baited_tele_trap, uniq_vashnia

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | tasonir, the Deep Elf Conjurer, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 5/5
   167 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 3/8
   501 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
   721 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 9/11
   778 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting
   788 | D:2      | Noticed Sigmund
  1142 | D:2      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  1280 | D:2      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  1595 | D:2      | Noticed Ijyb
  1603 | D:2      | Killed Ijyb
  1603 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 18/24 MP: 6/16
  1687 | D:2      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  1771 | D:3      | Noticed twig1919's ghost (average FoFi)
  1779 | D:2      | Learned a level 4 spell: Iskenderun's Mystic Blast
  2041 | D:3      | HP: 1/24 [twig1919's ghost (10)]
  2383 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  2410 | D:3      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  2696 | D:4      | Noticed Blork the orc
  2816 | D:4      | Killed Blork the orc
  2816 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 12/28 MP: 3/20
  3168 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting
  3168 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Conjurations
  3179 | D:4      | Learned a level 5 spell: Iskenderun's Battlesphere
  3314 | D:4      | Found Xufups' Gadget Shoppe.
  3348 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
  3368 | D:4      | Reached skill level 2 in Charms
  3368 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 22/32 MP: 6/22
  3732 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3738 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  3738 | D:4      | Reached skill level 3 in Charms
  3918 | D:4      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  3929 | D:4      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  4010 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Conjurations
  4010 | D:4      | Reached skill level 4 in Charms
  4050 | D:4      | Bought a lantern of shadows for 220 gold pieces
  4076 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4100 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 1/24
  4266 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
  4417 | D:5      | Noticed Milton's ghost (experienced MiBe)
  4450 | D:5      | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball
  4477 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Charms
  4796 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Conjurations
  4818 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Charms
  4825 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/41 MP: 14/25
  4901 | D:5      | Killed Milton's ghost
  4901 | D:5      | Reached skill level 9 in Conjurations
  4901 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Charms
  4905 | D:5      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  5245 | D:6      | Reached skill level 9 in Charms
  5728 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  5741 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  5780 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Iashol the Incorporeal
  5800 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Charms
  5882 | D:6      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  5885 | D:6      | Noticed Dowan
  6119 | D:6      | Noticed Duvessa
  6122 | D:6      | Killed Duvessa
  6122 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
  6278 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 45/45 MP: 14/27
  6378 | D:6      | HP: 5/45 [centaur/arrow (9)]
  6649 | D:6      | Killed Dowan
  6704 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Fire Magic
  6828 | D:6      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  6828 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting
  6828 | D:6      | Reached skill level 2 in Fire Magic
  6836 | D:6      | Learned a level 6 spell: Bolt of Fire
  7327 | D:7      | Reached skill level 3 in Fire Magic
  7388 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Spellcasting
  7617 | D:7      | Noticed Menkaure
  7621 | D:7      | Killed Menkaure
  7621 | D:7      | Reached skill level 4 in Fire Magic
  7786 | D:7      | Noticed tedric's ghost (experienced GrEE)
  7805 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Conjurations
  8281 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Spellcasting
  8362 | D:7      | Identified a wand of teleportation {zapped: 1} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  8371 | D:7      | Killed tedric's ghost
  8371 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
  8371 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 42/50 MP: 10/30
  8414 | D:7      | Gained mutation: You cannot study or use magical devices. [Iashol sacrifice]
  8414 | D:7      | Acquired Iashol's first power
  8441 | D:7      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  8441 | D:7      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  9267 | D:8      | Noticed Eustachio
  9272 | D:8      | Killed Eustachio
  9454 | D:8      | Learned a level 6 spell: Haste
 10039 | D:9      | Reached skill level 11 in Charms
 10265 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 10266 | D:9      | Found Psomubib's Weapon Boutique.
 10634 | D:9      | Gained mutation: You cannot be stealthy. [Iashol sacrifice]
 10634 | D:9      | Reduced skill Stealth to level 0
 10634 | D:9      | Acquired Iashol's second power
 10756 | D:9      | Reached skill level 12 in Charms
 10890 | D:9      | Reached skill level 13 in Charms
 11291 | D:9      | Found Sina's Gadget Emporium.
 11295 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 11297 | D:9      | Reached skill level 6 in Fire Magic
 11297 | D:9      | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
 11299 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 54/54 MP: 0/32
 11577 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 11698 | D:10     | Got a colourful robe
 11704 | D:10     | Identified the +0 robe of Exeog {+Blink +Rage rN+} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 12348 | D:10     | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
 12597 | D:10     | Got a brightly glowing buckler
 12601 | D:10     | Identified the cursed +0 buckler "Penorgh" {Dex-2 Int+3} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 12658 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 12663 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 12741 | D:10     | Gained mutation: You heal slowly when monsters are visible. [Iashol sacrifice]
 12741 | D:10     | Acquired Iashol's third power
 12749 | D:10     | Noticed Erolcha
 12755 | D:10     | Killed Erolcha
 12755 | D:10     | Reached skill level 7 in Fire Magic
 13074 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 13178 | D:11     | Noticed Nessos
 13185 | D:11     | Killed Nessos
 13185 | D:11     | Reached skill level 11 in Spellcasting
 13346 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 13519 | D:11     | Found Curalaamm's Magic Scroll Boutique.
 13523 | D:11     | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
 13523 | D:11     | Bought a scroll of amnesia for 38 gold pieces
 13523 | D:11     | Bought a scroll of magic mapping for 38 gold pieces
 13773 | D:11     | Got a wavering graven amulet
 13777 | D:11     | Identified the amulet of Toevud {+Rage rC+} (You took it off a hobgoblin on level 11 of the Dungeon)
 13905 | D:12     | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 13910 | D:12     | Killed a four-headed hydra
 13910 | D:12     | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
 13910 | D:12     | Reached skill level 8 in Fire Magic
 14566 | D:12     | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
 14566 | D:12     | Reached skill level 12 in Spellcasting
 14580 | D:12     | Gained mutation: You cannot read scrolls while threatened. [Iashol sacrifice]
 14580 | D:12     | Acquired Iashol's fourth power
 14845 | D:12     | Found Mnoanim's Magic Scroll Shop.
 14850 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of identify for 28 gold pieces
 14850 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of identify for 28 gold pieces
 14850 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of identify for 28 gold pieces
 14850 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 42 gold pieces
 15260 | D:13     | Reached skill level 9 in Fire Magic
 15440 | D:12     | Killed an unseen horror
 15440 | D:12     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 46/59 MP: 22/35
 15497 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 15563 | D:13     | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
 15569 | D:13     | Noticed Sonja
 15578 | D:13     | Killed Sonja
 15647 | D:13     | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 15652 | D:13     | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 15893 | D:13     | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 16030 | D:13     | Reached skill level 13 in Spellcasting
 16316 | D:13     | Got an encrusted leather armour
 16323 | D:13     | Identified the cursed -4 leather armour of Divine Intervention {Stlth++} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
 16356 | D:13     | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging
 16441 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 16575 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Fire Magic
 16701 | Lair:1   | Noticed Gastronok
 16710 | Lair:1   | Killed Gastronok
 16717 | Lair:1   | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 16957 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 17045 | Lair:1   | Noticed Fannar
 17051 | Lair:1   | Killed Fannar
 17051 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 2 in Shields
 17055 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 3 in Shields
 17399 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 4 in Shields
 17475 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You are terrified of blood. [Iashol sacrifice]
 17475 | Lair:1   | Acquired Iashol's fifth power
 17647 | Lair:1   | Noticed an ice dragon
 17797 | Lair:1   | Killed an ice dragon
 18044 | Lair:1   | Got a steaming robe
 18093 | Lair:1   | Identified the +5 robe "Xuah" {MR+ SInv} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 18104 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 46/63 MP: 26/36
 18222 | Lair:2   | Noticed Nergalle
 18226 | Lair:2   | Killed Nergalle
 18241 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 18245 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
 18249 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 3 spell: Flight
 18470 | Lair:2   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 18486 | Lair:2   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 18486 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 12 in Conjurations
 18971 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 19198 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
 19345 | Lair:3   | Noticed Snorg
 19376 | Lair:3   | Killed Snorg
 19376 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 19462 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 2 in Fighting
 20269 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 20271 | Lair:4   | Noticed Maud
 20473 | Lair:4   | Killed Maud
 20473 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 3 in Fighting
 20604 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging
 20786 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
 21106 | Lair:4   | Got a dazzling leather armour
 21113 | Lair:4   | Identified the cursed +3 leather armour "Qitulit" {rElec} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
 21513 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 21517 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 21572 | Lair:4   | Got a slimy ring mail
 21581 | Lair:4   | Identified the cursed +5 ring mail of Ynudosiy {rN+ Int+2} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
 21634 | Lair:4   | Noticed Erica
 21638 | Lair:4   | Killed Erica
 21638 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 12 in Dodging
 21685 | Lair:4   | Gained mutation: You have somewhat slow reflexes. (-3 EV) [Iashol sacrifice]
 22854 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
 22868 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 80/80 MP: 4/37
 23636 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 13 in Dodging
 24160 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
 24519 | Lair:5   | HP: 11/82 [electric eel/bolt of electricity (9)]
 25045 | Lair:5   | Gained mutation: Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body. [Iashol sacrifice]
 25046 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 1 in Long Blades
 25542 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 2 in Long Blades
 25761 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 3 in Long Blades
 26086 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 4 in Long Blades
 26507 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades
 26896 | Lair:7   | Learned a level 7 spell: Delayed Fireball
 27986 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 11 in Fire Magic
 28170 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 28683 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 14 in Spellcasting
 29298 | Lair:8   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 29324 | Lair:8   | Gained mutation: Your body is slowly deteriorating. [Iashol sacrifice]
 29341 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 78/86 MP: 10/38
 30691 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 12 in Fire Magic
 30700 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 13 in Conjurations
 31768 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting
 33141 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 33899 | Orc:3    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 34219 | Orc:3    | Noticed Maurice
 34222 | Orc:3    | Killed Maurice
 35048 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 35819 | Orc:4    | Gained mutation: You cannot drink potions while threatened. [Iashol sacrifice]
 37318 | Orc:4    | Found Rumogruj's Gadget Boutique.
 37318 | Orc:4    | Found Faregyir's Antique Armour Emporium.
 37321 | Orc:4    | Found Straf's Armour Shoppe.
 37323 | Orc:4    | Found Mnoiheph's Weapon Shop.
 37504 | Orc:4    | Bought the +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Slay+5} for 1615 gold pieces
 37681 | Orc:4    | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 38048 | D:14     | Found Mapufu's Distillery.
 38289 | D:14     | Reached skill level 14 in Conjurations
 38289 | D:14     | Reached skill level 13 in Fire Magic
 38573 | D:14     | Noticed Josephine
 38578 | D:14     | Killed Josephine
 38578 | D:14     | Reached skill level 16 in Spellcasting
 38827 | D:14     | Noticed Urug
 38833 | D:14     | Killed Urug
 38992 | D:14     | Bought a potion of resistance for 98 gold pieces
 38992 | D:14     | Bought a potion of restore abilities for 42 gold pieces
 39150 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 39805 | D:15     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 92/92 MP: 17/40
 39821 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 40444 | D:15     | Noticed Frances
 40453 | D:15     | Killed Frances
 40661 | D:15     | Got a faintly glowing cloak
 40665 | D:15     | Identified the cursed +2 cloak of Jelai {MR++ SInv} (You found it on level 15 of the Dungeon)
 40819 | D:15     | Learned a level 7 spell: Ring of Flames
 41129 | Orc:4    | Bought a +1 cloak of poison resistance for 175 gold pieces
 41391 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 41854 | Snake:1  | Reached skill level 6 in Long Blades
 42380 | Snake:1  | Reached skill level 7 in Long Blades
 43174 | Snake:2  | Noticed Aizul
 43180 | Snake:2  | Killed Aizul
 43180 | Snake:2  | Reached skill level 8 in Long Blades
 43600 | Snake:2  | Gained mutation: You take slightly more damage. (-3 AC) [Iashol sacrifice]
 43762 | Snake:2  | Reached skill level 9 in Long Blades
 44266 | Snake:2  | Got a warped silver amulet
 44267 | Snake:2  | Identified the amulet of Ghamiemp {rMut Str-4 Int+2} (You acquired it on level 2 of the Snake Pit)
 44857 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
 45863 | Snake:3  | Noticed Vashnia
 46086 | Snake:3  | Reached skill level 11 in Long Blades
 46639 | Snake:3  | HP: 12/92 [Vashnia/arrow (26)]
 46639 | Snake:3  | HP: 5/92 [Vashnia/arrow (7)]
 46639 | Snake:3  | Shot with an arrow by Vashnia

Vanquished Creatures
  Frances (D:15)
  Maud (Lair:4)
  Aizul (Snake:2)
  Gastronok (Lair:1)
  Snorg (Lair:3)
  Josephine (D:14)
  Fannar (Lair:1)
  10 hydras
  3 naga warriors
  Nessos (D:11)
  8 anacondas
  Erica (Lair:4)
  2 ice dragons
  2 tengu warriors
  21 death yaks
  3 centaur warriors
  5 shock serpents
  13 naga sharpshooters
  Urug (D:14)
  Nergalle (Lair:2)
  Erolcha (D:10)
  2 skeletal warriors
  A flayed ghost (D:15)
  2 unseen horrors
  An ice statue (Lair:1)
  5 naga ritualists
  2 lindwurms
  2 hill giants
  3 orc knights
  2 griffons
  6 salamanders
  A necromancer (D:15)
  6 mana vipers
  An orc sorcerer (Orc:4)
  A frost giant zombie (D:15)
  A manticore (D:13)
  4 cyclopes
  20 spiny frogs
  The ghost of tedric the Geomancer, an experienced GrEE of Iashol (D:7)
  Maurice (Orc:3)
  21 black mambas
  26 elephants
  The ghost of Milton the Skirmisher, an experienced MiBe of Trog (D:5)
  6 naga magi
  A gargoyle (D:13)
  10 komodo dragons
  3 kobold demonologists (D:14)
  A hydra zombie (D:12)
  4 yaktaurs (D:15)
  16 fire drakes
  5 trolls
  22 blink frogs
  5 polar bears
  4 ravens
  Sonja (D:13)
  2 giant leeches (Lair:8)
  Prince Ribbit (D:6)
  2 two-headed ogres
  An ettin zombie (D:15)
  A slime creature (D:10)
  2 boulder beetles
  3 wyverns
  5 basilisks
  A shadow (D:12)
  56 yaks
  3 deep elf magi
  A wraith (D:14)
  4 sharks
  10 hippogriffs
  Eustachio (D:8)
  15 ugly things
  A yak (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  A hill giant zombie (D:14)
  3 vampire mosquitoes (D:15)
  A hill giant skeleton (D:14)
  2 hungry ghosts
  A warg (Orc:2)
  Menkaure (D:7)
  6 wolves
  24 nagas
  8 porcupines
  3 soldier ants
  29 water moccasins
  A sky beast (D:14)
  8 ice beasts
  33 orc warriors
  A griffon simulacrum (D:14)
  3 phantoms
  4 boggarts (D:14)
  12 ogres
  A hill giant simulacrum (D:14)
  A necrophage (D:9)
  25 centaurs
  Duvessa (D:6)
  A boring beetle (Lair:8)
  15 crocodiles
  5 brain worms
  3 big kobolds
  A cyclops zombie (D:13)
  Blork the orc (D:4)
  A gnoll sergeant (D:10)
  A wyvern zombie (D:11)
  A yaktaur zombie (D:15)
  21 giant frogs
  A shapeshifter zombie (D:15)
  3 scorpions
  2 cyclops skeletons
  A troll zombie (D:9)
  6 wights
  10 killer bees
  3 electric eels
  2 quasits
  16 crimson imps
  A centaur zombie (D:7)
  Dowan (D:6)
  4 goliath beetles
  19 orc priests
  A centaur skeleton (D:4)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:5)
  Crazy Yiuf (D:4)
  12 jellies
  2 big fish (Lair:3)
  26 hounds
  12 worker ants
  34 orc wizards
  14 iguanas
  A shapeshifter simulacrum (D:14)
  3 orange rats (Lair:8)
  10 sheep
  Ijyb (D:2)
  A mottled dragon zombie (D:14)
  A crocodile skeleton (D:10)
  12 gnolls
  An orc zombie (D:8)
  24 adders
  38 green rats
  An inept feature mimic (D:9)
  19 worms
  A giant mite (D:5)
  4 shadow imps
  4 white imps
  2 orc skeletons
  21 oozes
  173 orcs
  2 ball pythons
  A bat skeleton (D:4)
  A giant cockroach (D:5)
  23 hobgoblins
  18 jackals
  21 kobolds
  12 quokkas
  17 bats
  5 giant geckos
  6 giant newts
  5 giant spores
  A gnoll skeleton (D:7)
  24 goblins
  A goblin skeleton (D:4)
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:4)
  A kobold zombie (D:7)
  21 rats
  21 ballistomycetes
  5 fungi
  4 plants (Lair:8)
1274 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A water elemental (D:15)
  An orc priest (Orc:4)
  A hound (D:5)
  An adder (D:5)
  3 orcs (Orc:4)
  A giant spore (D:8)
  6 fungi
  A plant (Lair:5)
15 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1289 creatures vanquished


Hit for roughly 40ish damage from vashnia, which I should really expect, but was trying to just finish him off instead. Wish brand damage would be counted on the hit, can't see exactly what he hit me for. Ah well. Casters are quite doable. Giving up AC/EV and taking on mutations is perhaps a bit harder than melee characters giving up magic, but it can be done. I could have probably given up a hand and taken fewer overall sacrifices, but I felt like trying to hold on to the shield.

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Arrhythmia

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Sunday, 22nd June 2014, 03:00

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Thanks for the additional solid feedback, tasonir and crate. crate, I had concerns that player feedback would be almost exactly what you said, but I thought it was worth trying out. I'll be keeping an eye on this one, and probably making some changes soon -- at a bare minimum, I'll switch how it affects casting.

crate wrote:Some bugs or maybe-bugs:

I had monsters fumble before I hit 1* piety and got the message that they would do so.
Sacrifice Love doesn't make allies you already have go hostile (at least, not zombies/skeletons).
The -MR sacrifice should be -40 MR since all other MR-changing items/etc are now in multiples of 40. edit: and just say it gives MR- instead of MR -40, since nowhere else does crawl tell you these numbers in-game.

Power leap should not let you target a monster, since you cannot jump there.

I got this message when I sacrificed charms/tmut/ice:

I've already got a fix in that addresses the 1* issue you raised -- and also swaps out the 1* ability for the one described above. It may not yet be loaded on the server at the time you see this. I'll see what I can do about the sacrifice love not making existing allies hostile -- I hadn't run into it yet. I made the MR mutation be -20 because -40 felt like waaaay too much. I could try it at -40 and make the piety reward much larger, and maybe on high MR races players might consider taking a rank or two. If I make that change, it would allow me to drop the numeric display, which I agree is not good. I'll add the power leap targeting bug to the list. The amnesia problem is new to me -- it didn't come up in testing -- so I'll have to hunt down the cause.

Some other fixes that will hopefully be on the server soon include:
* More text around offered sacrifices during the sacrifice ability resolution, including a ballpark description of how significant the sacrifice is in terms of piety gain.
* A fix for demonspawn/silver interactions w/ Iashol
* Some typo fixes.

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Arrhythmia

Dungeon Master

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Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Sunday, 22nd June 2014, 19:44

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

crate: I still can't reproduce the sacrifice arcana amnesia issue. Are there any other details I could use to recreate the issue more accurately?

Anyone else run into it?

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Arrhythmia

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Monday, 23rd June 2014, 01:26

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I'm not really sure, I considered backing up my save when I ran into the problem but I suspected that that would possibly have been not very useful anyway (since it would've been after the message). I don't think I did anything special to trigger it, and at this point if I did I forget so looking at my dump is likely to be more informative than asking me.

My current character in the Iashol branch is the same one that got the buggy message, so you can check there for my dump; since I'm not at home I probably won't touch the character for a bit anyway.

Some elaboration on my biggest problem with sacrifice sanity, since I realise this may not be obvious to everyone:

The big thing here is that bloodstains never disappear. This means that once a space has been bloodied it is permanently polluted. Therefore, a significant concern for a player who has sacrificed sanity is keeping the total number of spaces unaffected by blood to a maximum. Ideally, you lure all not-dangerous speed-10 monsters to exactly the same tile (you can't put more than 1 bloodstain on a tile!) and kill them there. Since they're not dangerous this isn't a problem, but since they bleed you are encouraged to do this. There are obviously less extreme examples of problematic behaviour, but this is really not an acceptable thing for a god to be encouraging.

In addition, sacrifice sanity is in practice pretty harmless compared to most other sacrifices (if you do the above things) so that makes the problem worse, since very nearly every Iashol character will want to sacrifice sanity. Of course, hiding a problem under the rug (by e.g. increasing the penalties for blood) does not actually fix said problem.

The fact that it additionally encourages weird behaviour in other ways is also bad (you want to do things like freeze not-dangerous monsters to death even if you can kill them more quickly in other ways, since freeze never makes blood) but to me that's less of a problem (though still not something that should be encouraged).

I think the gameplay idea behind sacrifice sanity is perhaps interesting, but the implementation must change.

edit: I feel pretty strongly that the MR sacrifice should be -40 for consistency with other effects and for clarity to the player. Increase the amount of piety it gives, obviously, but I think it's still less harmful for a large number of characters than e.g. sacrificing a hand. In particular summoners can get by with very nearly no MR checks since you just block all hexes with summons, and sometimes you find lots of MR gear.

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Arrhythmia, duvessa, WalkerBoh

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Monday, 23rd June 2014, 13:00

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Thanks for the additional explanation on sacrifice blood, crate! Do you think that having blood time out (fresh blood versus dried blood) as tasonir suggested might address the issues? I don't necessarily think that it's bad that Sac Sanity encourages you to switch up which types of damage you do, but only if it does so overall rather than specifically versus popcorn.

For what it's worth, I've already added patches for the following issues, and hopefully the experimental server will have them soon:

* -MR -> 40
* reduced piety for sac love / sac arcana-Summoning when you already have one of the two.
* prevented power leap targeter from targeting tiles w/ visible monsters
* Made sure Sac Love angers existing allies.

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Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Monday, 23rd June 2014, 16:20

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

It absolutely encourages you to change how you attack all monsters, particularly since the killing blow seems significantly more likely to produce blood than any other hit. With my necromancer it was probably ideal for me to do things like poke with my trident until the monster is almost dead, then be sure that I use vamp draining to finish the job (well, actually I picked up sticky flame to kill things, and I really don't want to have to sticky flame every single speed-10 melee-only monster). Additionally, I still have to ask how encouraging such weird rules for weapon/magic use is good, when you could create the same effect in a less-weird way (maybe every hit the player does has a damage-in-X chance to create one stack of -sanity).

Making blood time out makes the positioning thing somewhat less problematic (you still have the one-bloodstain-per-tile thing, so you are still encouraged to kill monsters on exactly the same space, which I think is described as weird-at-best, and unless the timer is very short you are still encouraged to pull monsters quite some distance farther than you otherwise would be). It's an improvement but not really a fix.

Really the whole thing sounds to me like you found flavour that you think is neat, and then you are trying very hard to square-peg-round-hole good gameplay into it. Disconnecting the effect from blood and positioning altogether (I'm sorry but I don't see a good way to tie effects like this to positioning; no, Gozag's gold distraction aura doesn't work well either despite timing out pretty quickly) would allow you to easily keep the you-get-weaker-as-you-fight idea without any of the problems.

Crawl just has too many speed-10-or-slower monsters (i.e. it has some; note that speed 11 or such wouldn't entirely fix this anyway though) and too many monsters that end up being not-dangerous (you can't just remove said monsters for various reasons including them not being the same monsters for each game) for positioning effects like sac sanity or Gozag gold distraction to be good gameplay.

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Arrhythmia, duvessa

Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Monday, 23rd June 2014, 18:41

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

While killing a monster on an already blood stained tile will likely reduce the amount of blood, keep in mind it can spill to additional tiles nearby. Especially if you hit the monster with fairly high damage. Eventually you'd end up with several bloodstains and probably not want to fight there again, if you cared about the penalty.

But imho, only casters really have to worry about it, slaying -4 or -6 doesn't really matter much to melee who have a 2h weapon and hit for high damage. It may make quickblades unusable, but I haven't played with a very low damage weapon, and it isn't much noticeable on something with high base damage. Casters would have more trouble killing things on the same tile all the time assuming they don't want to stand in melee combat and were killing things at range. But crate's strategy would be pretty practical for melee, if a bit harder for casters to pull off.

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Post Sunday, 29th June 2014, 16:00

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

The Iashol experimental branch on CSZO is up to date with the latest changes and bug fixes, and trunk changes were merged in as well. Next on the agenda are renaming to Ru, doing something about Sac Sanity, reimplementing "faith, and fixing up acquirement.

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Post Wednesday, 2nd July 2014, 21:18

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I am particularly looking for feedback on the new * ability, if anyone has tried it out.

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Post Thursday, 3rd July 2014, 13:24

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Do active games on the experimental branch update to the latest version the way trunk does? I finally got around to testing this again but my game was started a couple weeks ago, want to make sure I'm playing the most recent version.

Anyway I've noticed another bug: I'm doing SpEn w/ sacrifice hand and the game is incorrectly reporting magic staffs as usable, I suspect this applies to other smaller races non-standard handedness requirements.

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Post Thursday, 3rd July 2014, 19:48

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Yes, active games are updated to the latest version. Thanks for the bug report!

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Post Saturday, 5th July 2014, 19:23

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Unfortunately that SpEn died. In my current game (DDEE, trying to test how DD works with Iashol healing) though Iashol likes to stun butterflies which makes resting basically impossible when they're around, rather annoying though fairly minor problem. He seems to be stunning them from across the screen though, and I also saw a hill giant get stunned while 1 tile away from me, so I'm not sure Iashol stunning is working as intended (if I understand it correct they're only supposed to be stunned in melee range). I'll look at it more and see how often this stuff happens, maybe it's just a feature of the butterflies' confused movement and the hill giant got positive energy randomisation or something.

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Post Saturday, 5th July 2014, 21:02

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I am rolling a SpEn with an amulet of faith found early. It hasn't cleared Orc or Lair and only reached D:13 but has made up to six sacrifices, with the last one when I was having 6 stars. I don't think I'm gonna sacrifice more so I am going too much crippled. Thus, can I forgot I have a god for the rest of the game or should I invest on more demanding sacrifices?

I suppose the last option increase the power of both passive and active abilities even at max * but it's unclear to me.

The passives are really good; the regeneration of MP has saved me in a couple of times, the leap is fine but I was expecting something more impressive in range with more piety. The cataclysm should have some fancy animation but I know its a minor detail.
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Post Saturday, 5th July 2014, 23:15

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

The current stun ability triggers whenever a monster attempts to use a ranged ability -- I guess even monsters w/o ranged abilities can technically attempt to use one. I'll see what I can do to prevent that from happening. The stun ability can also force the monster to use the attack on another enemy -- which can lead to things like frost giants shooting themselves with bolts of cold.

Iashol keeps offering sacrifices until you reach max piety. I'm thinking I should increase the delay between sacrifice offers if there are already sacrifices on offer to as to 1) annoy people who want to stop making sacrifices less, and 2) discourage people who farming for their preferred sacrifices, should that be a thing.

I think I may also increase the amount of piety gained for sacrifices slightly on the upper end -- from my testing, it feels like it takes too much to hit 200 piety.

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Post Monday, 7th July 2014, 02:38

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Almost done but before I forget this: you can be horrified by the sight of blood while resting. Probably more on sacrifice sanity later.

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Post Monday, 7th July 2014, 02:42

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Also apparently ghost moths have invisible blood.

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Post Thursday, 10th July 2014, 14:13

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

I've got a few patches completed, including the Ru rename and an alternate version of Sacrifice Sanity. The new version gives you horror status based on the number of Tough/Nasty monsters in view; it also significantly reduces the wizardry penalty from the status and fixes the teleport bug.

The new version of Sac Sanity effectively makes hard monsters harder.

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Post Thursday, 10th July 2014, 15:17

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Is this alt version of sac sanity motivated by the everlasting blood tiles?

edit: btw, which effects does the horror status cause?
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Post Thursday, 10th July 2014, 17:23

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

The alt version of sac sanity is motivated by the issues with the old version crate explained above. After thinking it over, I don't think that doing either or both of 1) only counting fresh blood or 2) only applying the status if blood exceeds a certain threshold would resolve the issues. A suggestion from wheals led to the current version -- we'll see how it goes.

The Horror status gives -slaying (accuracy and damage) and a wizardry penalty, each in proportion to the amount of Horror you have.

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 00:14

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Okay, completed a DDEE game with Iashol to test some things, namely DDs and sacrifices I hadn't yet used, also experimenting with how well casters fared.

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/lessens/mor ... 033257.txt

Reactions:
-I don't think anything needs to be changed to account for DD. I wouldn't necessarily say that regaining HP through Iashol's ability is fun or interesting, but it's certainly not worse than the other god options in that regard. It's most similar to Ely healing but probably a little stronger since it's based on draining rather than piety, (which can get tight later for Ely worshipers), and this acts as a somewhat meaningful check on healing especially if it's combined with use of Cataclysm. The cost of Iashol's healing is fairly low but it adds up if it's your only source and I spent most of the game fighting to keep my skills un-drained, though I would like to see what happens with a DD who has better defensive stats (I may do this if I have the time). Probably the biggest problem is that, when combined with Cataclysm use, it encourages fighting enemies just to regen, I actually ducked into Crypt of all places (with Cekugob) to eliminate draining while doing Vaults:5, and also fought more in Zot rather than diving because I'd used Cataclysm and healing more (though I'm not sure that's such a bad thing). Overall I'd say Iashol doesn't create any more gameplay problems for DD than Ely does, though it's certainly more of a hassle than Trog and probably even Makhleb (though of course the problems are of a different category there). If anyone else does DD of Iashol I'd like to see what they think.
-DDEE is obviously a very strong combo compared to say DEFE or TeCj but I found Iashol fairly useful despite focusing primarily on conj/earth over melee. The MP regen from Iashol's healing ability certainly isn't as good as Sif's but it's still useful, especially since it regens significantly more MP than Sif does with zero skill investment. I used that ability frequently to regen MP even when my HP was at or near max. Definitely not a rival for Veh or Sif but definitely better than many other non-Trog gods.
-I'll keep this brief since it's already being changed but I'd echo many of crate's criticisms of Sacrifice Sanity. It was actually probably more interesting in this game than most others because I often found myself choosing spells based on their lack of blood, particularly IOoD, which basically made it impossible to cast after a single use. It also forced me off the Vaults:5 stairs, which was neat. Overall though it tended to create more tedium than interesting tactical situations and I don't really see a way to fix it that preserves the good results while removing the bad ones.

Bugs:
-I already mentioned this to Lasty but hopefully someone can confirm it: I'm pretty sure Sacrifice Words/Drink are completely broken. I never saw either of them in my game even once. Has anyone else experienced this or are those sacrifices giving you -scrolls/-potions sometimes?

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 13:10

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

lessens: I already fixed the scrolls/potions bugs thanks to your feedback. I also changed the sacrifice sanity behavior based on your, crate's, and tasonir's feedback (see above). Thanks for the detailed feedback!

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 14:52

Re: Proposal: Iashol, God of balance and sacrifice

Ok no more horrifying blood but now I am experiencing oddities like stabbing a monster and feeling a twist of horror at the sight of this foe, after I have slain it.

Besides, the same message appears sometimes when no monster is in sight.
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