Zot Zealot
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Re: New Ashenzari
(*I know it isn't as big a deal as some people think, but I still get sucked into it a lot.)
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
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RangerC wrote:I think that's OK, but losing the ability to boost Stealth is a loss to some builds. Maybe 'light' armour (robe/leather) boosts Stealth/Dodging and 'heavy armour' (the rest) boosts Armour/Dodging?
RangerC wrote:- The weapon boost was extremely underwhelming, especially once the speed cap got close. Keeping hands unbound is probably better in almost all situations/builds (now that full cursing isn't required). Also, I can't see ever wanting to bind a rod for a measly +4 in Evocations(make it +8 or +10, then you might have a decision). Getting +10 on a two-handed weapon might be interesting, though (MfCr could use a bardiche early, for example). Same thing with the boost to top spell school (though that is now gone anyway) - barely noticeable. I like that the most powerful boost (+6 to spell schools) requires full bondage of jewelery (giving up tactical swaps); it's a balanced trade-off.
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casmith789 wrote:Abilities Ashenzari has should not overhaul current cursing systems. I am not sure which, if any, of these are still in however none of them should be:
You can swap weapons if cursed / you can butcher using ash ability
You can wear armour if your cloak is cursed and rings if your gloves are cursed
Keep it consistent!
It's feeling more and more like ash is just losing all his flavour. He's the cursed god but his curses don't have any impact.
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TGW wrote:Why not remove them in general, then?
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minmay wrote:Not being able to change armour and rings is not significant to gameplay?
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minmay wrote:galehar wrote:And this is good, up until it starts stepping on ash's gameplay.
But curses are Ashenzari's gameplay.
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galehar wrote:TGW wrote:Why not remove them in general, then?
Why remove them? They don't create any gameplay problem for non-ash worshippers. They add a little realism and flavour to the curse system. And this is good, up until it starts stepping on ash's gameplay.
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TGW wrote:And they take a huge chunk out of Ashenzari's flavour with the special cases.
minmay wrote:Maybe I'm weird, but I think they do. In particular, it means you may want to avoid cursing your cloak until you find body armour you want to leave on, and that you may want to avoid cursing your gloves until you have two rings you want to leave on.
minmay wrote:Plain single-slot curses are enough, sure, but I really don't like special-casing it for Ashenzari worshippers. If these restrictions are annoying to Ashenzari worshippers, why would they be any less annoying to other characters?
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galehar wrote:minmay wrote:Maybe I'm weird, but I think they do. In particular, it means you may want to avoid cursing your cloak until you find body armour you want to leave on, and that you may want to avoid cursing your gloves until you have two rings you want to leave on.
Yes, they add a little something to the curse minigame. Some (like you) find it interesting. Others find it annoying. I don't really care, but the glove/ring can really be a problem if we want to give a better boost for full boundage of armour/jewellery.
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dpeg wrote:I would suggest to not try to come up with elaborate system (a la Nethack) how cursed items are inferior, although a simple, broad system could work (e.g. a cursed item has a 33% chance of not working).
dpeg wrote:Apart from that, we should reduce on ?RC and or ?DC scrolls (it might be an option to just cut ?DC) and we should add cursing monsters.
dpeg wrote:A very early opponent could have the ability to curse an armour item it touches (and your weapon may get cursed if you attack the monster). Later opponents could curse your whole gear just by being around (think cursed toe, or a moth of curses) and you may drop non-used cursed items in its presence.
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dpeg wrote:e.g. a cursed item has a 33% chance of not working.
dpeg wrote:Apart from that, we should reduce on ?RC and or ?DC scrolls.
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njvack wrote:Think it might be reasonable to give Ash a "choose what kind of curse scroll you're going to get from this RC scroll" ability? Right now, I'd be happy even if it was pretty piety-expensive.
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dpeg wrote:galehar: Yes, Ash would have to prevent monster curses, just like with mummies.
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dpeg wrote:Here's a bonus idea: there could be a randart property of perpetually recursing. In other words, it'd be a potentially endless ?RC sink.
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galehar wrote:I don't understand what you mean. Under my proposal, the player is encouraged to bind himself and keep piety high. Isn't that what you're suggesting too? What do you mean by "no numerical bonus to piety rank calculation"?
If you are fully bound, what does the Chained God care? It is what you do irrespective of your chains that troubles Ashenzari. The chaining is symbolic. You are chained because the god you desired is chained. Ashenzari comprehends curses unlike any other god due to the proximity of the bindings put unto him by each other deity. The magic of Sif Muna and the ferocity of Trog the Destroyer alike keep him spread-eagled in the sky. Thus the only way he is left to aid those whom he loves is the unpareil comprehension of the curses bound to the material and the spiritual as well as his utter concentration upon the earth- whatever the arcane domains of The God That Was are, he no longer oversees them, so his torment-clarified gaze burns over the earth.
Like before, his overwhelming ambition drives him to continually transcend. He challenged the gods in his hubris and nearly surmounted them. Now he is chained but yet his intellect remains. No other god has the sight of Ashenzari.
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The Mantis wrote:I don't like the idea of having a numerical bonus to piety rank calculation, really.
The Mantis wrote:"Piety+1" in an equation designed to indicate full bind bonuses seems uncomfortable flavor-wise.
The Mantis wrote:Boundage values affect piety limits. If the player is not fully bound, he doesn't get a greater level of skill bonus. Full binding permits the maximum amount of both skill bonuses and piety limit.
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The Mantis wrote:Ashenzari piety should be bound by Bounding level and deterioriate over time if piety exceeds that bounding level at a rate equal to the rate of exploration gain.
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SinsI wrote:It would be interesting if Ashenzari was a god that is able to find use for items that are usually useless (or even bad)- not only scrolls of curse, but also various random wands/scrolls/decks, potions for Mummies or any evocable item for Felids...
Something like using ring of hunger to make enemies hungry(starving and weak), amulet of innacuracy to make enemies miss at you more often...
He can also help you predict if you are going to be sick from this particular brown chunk of meat (and allow you to throw it away instead).
That would be much more flavorfull and interesting than stupid boost to XP or stealing abilities off the Deep Dwarfs...
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