The Tavern

So I'm a big fan of Dithmenos, but I'm disappointed by the current state of Shadow Mimic. My observation is that it has these effects:

* Melee: almost never hits; does very poor damage unless wielding a two-hander.
* Ranged: periodically adds a moderate damage boost, scaling with the weapon used.
* Conjurations: Very large boost to conjuration damage, similar to having a phantom battlesphere that can also fire beams. The damage boost, like Battlesphere, is relatively independent of what you are casting.

Since Shadow Mimic is one of my favorite aspects of the god, and since I like to use the god with many different types of characters, I'd like to see the power of Shadow Mimic be more consistent across different types of attacks: either all should scale with the character's tools and/or skills (melee, ranged) or none should (conjurations), and all should add about the same amount of damage. My feeling is that the current effect on melee is too weak, and that the ideal target is somewhere between current ranged and current conjurations.

Before I get into trying to come up with the best execution of this plan, I'd like to sound you all out and see what you think about the current state of Shadow Mimic and how it could be improved.

To compound the issue somewhat, since the attacks of the shadow mimic are always unbranded, characters using light weapons get very little from it, even if it hits. Is shadow mimic is to be useful to stabbers (i.e. short blade users) at all, then the brand damage should be applied, at least partially.

Isn't this for Dang thread?(I don't think it was a good idea to name it this way, though) If you have high stabbing skills+dex shadow mimic allows some free distraction stabs, it ok, I think. I don't think shadow mimic should be too strong, though. Umbra, shadow step and shadow form are good enough, imo. If mimic would be effective and significant, that would boost damage output, which might be too good with all other abilities and would make him too popular. For offence boost we have other gods like Veh, Oka and Trog, so I don't think direct offence boost should be his thing, actually.

I think the issue is less about boosting damage from shadow mimic and more about making shadow mimic damage more consistent across different playstyles.

I've just played a Wz^Dith. Kind of strange how mimic makes magic dart and such many times stronger. Can't we just make mimic work like normal spells? At least damage-wise.

I'm trying to take advantage of shadow mimicking spells right now, but I don't think it has kicked in yet.

Try maxing piety it makes all the difference.

I'm playing my first DsCj^Dith and Shadow Mimic for conjurations feels ridonkulously OP. Even in Depths, I can spam Magic Missile or Searing Ray at lots of things and the Shadow Shards tear them apart, for less MP and much less noise than I'd make using IMB.

I'm wielding a well-enchanted randart scimitar of freezing and have felt like I'm getting a noticeable melee boost too, but not OP -- I guess that's because it's at the higher end of damage for one-hander base types. I don't pay that close attention to how often Mimic hits in melee, but I catch it out of the corner of my eye pretty frequently.

I haven't used ranged weapons.

Mimic isn't that good for melee, because it's just base damage of your weapon(I think). Shadow shards are just quite strong and that's all that is to it. Ranged combat seemed to work similarly. At least my inept xbower dealt some good damage with shadow bolts. I don't know how it works for bolts. Are shadow bolts just shards, too? Or are they just like plain bolts from a plain xbow?

They're plain bolts from a plain crossbow fired by a monster with HD 1/2 your level (as I understand it). Since monsters are surprisingly powerful with crossbows, that ends up being pretty decent, but not as crazy as it was when it was HD = your level. At that point it seemed to be about as much damage as if you had ~20 skill in the same weapon.

Turns out the terribleness of shadow mimic physical attack power was a bug - it was always getting HD 1. Now it's half your relevant weapon skill (which was originally intended when this was changed) plus half your Fighting skill (which is new).

Thanks for taking care of it, sgrunt. I'm very excited to try Dith out again post-change.

Thanks (again) sgrunt for minimizing this bug with maximum speed.