Proposal: final Trog ability

[Yermak]

I suggest Trog giving you anti-magic brand at 6 stars, in one row with TSO, Kiku and Lugonu. Nor because I think Trog is underpowered neither because I think he gives too few anti-magic. Just because it would add nice flavour. Anti-magic is already a special brand together with holy, pain and distortion. Yes, Trog's power will be boosted but I think it is negligible boost since he already gives lots of anti-magic. In a theory players would be able to pick Trog for anti-magicizing their weapons and they abandon him in favour of some other god. But in my opinion his wrath is harsh enough to be a good cost for that.

[some12fat2move]

Great, I look forward to traveling back to around D:5 for an EW3 on every single Trog game. edit: I see you didn't mention "altar" anywhere in your post, so hopefully you meant it to go through, say, the ability menu (which I really wish all the god final gifts did).

[Bart]

I suggest Trog giving you anti-magic brand at 6 stars, in one row with TSO, Kiku and Lugonu. Nor because I think Trog is underpowered neither because I think he gives too few anti-magic. Just because it would add nice flavour. Anti-magic is already a special brand together with holy, pain and distortion. Yes, Trog's power will be boosted but I think it is negligible boost since he already gives lots of anti-magic. In a theory players would be able to pick Trog for anti-magicizing their weapons and they abandon him in favour of some other god. But in my opinion his wrath is harsh enough to be a good cost for that.

I cannot find any flavour in that proposal. Sniff, sniff, where is it?
Unlike with Trog, who gifts weapons with his brand all the time, with TSO, Kiku and Lugonu you get only one piece throughout the game. I feel that behind your proposal stays one of following:
a) you want to really worship him only for that brand, then abandon him OR
b) you want to always get antimagic as soon as you get weapon with base type you desire.
In both cases I do not approve - getting holy brand from TSO is already scummy, no need to do the same with Trog; also reducing randomness to zero is against Crawl's idea, I think.

[Yermak]

I feel that behind your proposal stays one of following: ...

There is exactly what I said behind my proposal: desire to line anti-magic up in a row with three other special brands. Also I'd like Xom has the same ability but without piety it's problematic.

Sorry if it sounded rude, but I strongly dislike when people put my words under distrust and search for ulterior motives there.

[Bart]

I'm sorry for my distrust. I simply see no flavour in Trog giving as his final gift a possibility to brand a weapon with antimagic, so I'm looking for something behind that. I also don't see a reason to line anti-magic up in a row with other god's gifts, because they have different mechanics.

If you wanted to line these gods up, the proposal should also come with antimagic not spawning on Trog's normal gifts. I think, though, that the beauty comes from asymmetry (just like with glaciate!) and adjustment in a way you proposed will just make even more gods similar in behavior.

[Sandman25]

Trog should grant one of "Wrath of Trog", "sword of Jihad", "glaive of the Guard", "Wyrmbane", "salamander hide armour", "hat of the Bear Spirit" (yes, last 2 are armour pieces but they grant rage too) without taking skills into account.

[TeshiAlair]

Why not just make his last ability an active aura of antimagic?

[dck]

Because he already gives you that in the form of a huge mace of antimagic which you then apply to the puny caster's face.

[Tedronai]

Why not just make his last ability an active aura of antimagic?

Trog definitely does not need a buff. He is one of the best balanced gods as of now.

[TeshiAlair]

Why not just make his last ability an active aura of antimagic?

Trog definitely does not need a buff. He is one of the best balanced gods as of now.

Oh, I agree, I'm just saying if people have a problem with him not having a "reliable" source of antimagic, this is a much smarter way of doing it.

I don't think he should be changed though, unless its to have BiA allies have inner flame because that'd be awesome

[and into]

It isn't broke, and doesn't need to be fixed, and doesn't need a buff—everyone seems to be agreed on this. So I don't think there's a good chance for anything to change, when the only gain is flavor.

And whether it is gain in flavor is questionable; to one person this has nice "symmetry," to others (myself included) it makes Trog less special and distinct.

For instance, I don't think it is a big problem or anything, but ideally I'd say that Okawaru's gifting (aside from ammo maybe) should work in some other way or be distinguished from Trog's gifting, and Lugonu should have some different or unique way to give you a distortion weapon. (Kiku's choice between Necronomicon and pain weapon is neat, and sufficient to differentiate it.) Not a huge issue, but I think gods should strive to have their own distinct MOs, even if they parallel each other in various ways. They are competitors, after all. (Except for Ely Zin TSO, who kind of formed a trust I guess to try to corner a better share of the market.)

[dpeg]

andinto: Good that some people have a plan for that (Oki gifting).

[damiac]

Thank goodness. Oki's gifts just get my hopes up, to dash them repeatedly. Oh, +infinity, +0 great sword of mediocrity eh oka? Another one for the trash heap... Oh, and thanks for the third branded buckler, it goes very well with my claymore...

I think maybe Oki lets Xom pick the gifts....

[Viashino_wizard]

Thank goodness. Oki's gifts just get my hopes up, to dash them repeatedly. Oh, +infinity, +0 great sword of mediocrity eh oka? Another one for the trash heap... Oh, and thanks for the third branded buckler, it goes very well with my claymore...

I think maybe Oki lets Xom pick the gifts....

Then you have that one game where his first gift is a Cloak of Preservation followed by Boots of Running (followed by a -2 hat).

Trog should grant one of "Wrath of Trog", "sword of Jihad", "glaive of the Guard", "Wyrmbane", "salamander hide armour", "hat of the Bear Spirit" (yes, last 2 are armour pieces but they grant rage too) without taking skills into account.

Isn't Trog specifically programmed not to gift Wrath of Trog because the whole idea is that he lost it somewhere and can't find it?

[Sandman25]

Isn't Trog specifically programmed not to gift Wrath of Trog because the whole idea is that he lost it somewhere and can't find it?

You are right, I have just found this comment in source

  Code:

        // Trog does not gift the Wrath of Trog, nor weapons of pain
        // (which work together with Necromantic magic).


[siprus]

You had game where you didn't get anti-magic with Trog? I generally get anti-magic weapon for relevant weapon category of weapon type i'm using. Though i have to admit i don't remember getting demonweapons from him, but that might be just because i'm using axes too often with him.

[dpeg]

Alright, summing up this thread there were two compelling reasons against the suggestion ("Trog final ability to bestow antimagic on a mundane weapon"): first, Trog doesn't need the power boost; second, that goes against Trog's flavour (since the god gifts weapons a-plenty, with emphasis on antimagic already).

I think the reason for the OP to make the proposal is symmetry: many special weapon egos are dealt out as final, one-off brandings. I understand the reasoning, but as others have pointed out, this could actually be seen as another reason against the change. Quite often, less symmetry among mechanics is more interesting in the game.

I'd like to add one more reason against: it reduces the potential for decisions. Sometimes, you have to make compromises. If you can always take a very good weapon type, enchant it highly, and then slap on the brand, then end games (here I mean: with Trog in Zot) would look more uniform, I am afraid.

Verdict: rejected. (However, don't worry: Keep 'em coming.)