Wrath reform


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 87

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 17:40

Post Thursday, 6th February 2014, 23:39

Wrath reform

I'd like to start out by saying that I like the way wrath works in Crawl.
You abandon your god, presumably to switch to a different one and benefit from it. Therefor this whole thing is penalized by the old one smiting you.
I see two issues with it, though: that some god's wrath (Trog) is much stronger than others, and that nowhere in-game is there a list of wrath effects.
The second one is (AFAIK) easily fixed; the the ^! screen there could be a list of what a god does when abandoned.
Wrath is slightly more complex. For example, Trog is a strong god, able to be started with, and is one of the most commonly played ones (especially by beginners.) As such, as I see it, there is little motivation to switch away from him until the very late game, and his wrath should be weak. At least not 3 berserk stone giants plus 2 trolls and a bear. Hostile BiA can easily kill well-prepared characters. This (IMO) discourages experimentation (one of the goals of Crawl) from a beginner god by slamming them with a very nasty, spoilery effect when they try something new (switching gods.)
On the other hand, we have gods whose wraths are extremely weak- Makhleb and Kiku spring to mind. Makhleb wrath is easily survived by any character with teleportation and/or who is able to kill Executioners (which isn't that hard.)
So I propose:
*Listing wrath effects in the religion screen, or at an altar before you join (maybe both.)
*Nerfing Trog wrath (lowering the number of BiA/lowering their levels)
*Buffing Makhleb wrath (slowing regeneration rate when monsters are in sight, summoning more demons)
*Buffing Kiku wrath (maybe 50% chance of raising a zombie of anything you kill that leaves a corpse?)
Thanks for reading. :)

Blades Runner

Posts: 578

Joined: Thursday, 12th January 2012, 21:03

Post Thursday, 6th February 2014, 23:46

Re: Wrath reform

Which god's wrath does what is a bit spoilery, and it seems reasonable that it should be indicated somewhere.

I don't know about homogenizing the severity of wrath, though -- just like severity of conduct or difficulty of piety gain, it can vary from god to god as a balancing factor. I always figured Trog had heavy-duty wrath because he was so strong. It'd be a bit much if you could coast on Trog through most of the dungeon and then trivially switch to TSO and learn a bunch of magic for the endgame.

There might be good reason to make some gods' wrath harder or easier, though, beyond just evening everything out. Should players be discouraged from leaving Kiku/Makhleb?
Wins: DsWz(6), DDNe(4), HuIE(5), HuFE(4), MiBe(3)

Halls Hopper

Posts: 87

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 17:40

Post Thursday, 6th February 2014, 23:55

Re: Wrath reform

Igxfl wrote:Which god's wrath does what is a bit spoilery, and it seems reasonable that it should be indicated somewhere.

I don't know about homogenizing the severity of wrath, though -- just like severity of conduct or difficulty of piety gain, it can vary from god to god as a balancing factor. I always figured Trog had heavy-duty wrath because he was so strong. It'd be a bit much if you could coast on Trog through most of the dungeon and then trivially switch to TSO and learn a bunch of magic for the endgame.

There might be good reason to make some gods' wrath harder or easier, though, beyond just evening everything out. Should players be discouraged from leaving Kiku/Makhleb?

Yeah, that's the problem. Maybe wrath severity could scale with level. In any case, though, by the time a character has enough motivation to switch to TSO they're in the very late game and could probably survive the BiA spam anyway. I see your point, though.
As to switching from Makhleb, I see no real reason to, except maybe late game TSO. I personally have used Kiku to get a cheap pain weapon/necronomicon and then switched to Ashenzari for skill boosts.
All of the above should have the disclaimer that I'm not a great player. (I can generally clear Lair if I'm paying attention.)
User avatar

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 301

Joined: Friday, 8th November 2013, 16:19

Location: Tel'aran'rhiod

Post Friday, 7th February 2014, 07:07

Re: Wrath reform

Trog's wrath is fine.

You cannot expect to get a superior weapon and god abilities that make (at least) a 5 rune game ridiculously easy only to then discard him. Most of crawl players will never have a reason to abandon him and those who go for extended only need some means of blinking to reliably survive the wrath.

However, I do agree that the wrath of Makhleb for example should be buffed. He should have orb run like spawns in my opinion.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1217

Joined: Sunday, 14th April 2013, 04:01

Post Friday, 7th February 2014, 15:07

Re: Wrath reform

I would rather wrath be weaker, but persistent, almost like a jinx that follows you the rest of the game: Trog randomly berserks a monster, Yred randomly zombifies something you just killed, etc. This way you can't scum it out, and you actually feel the decision the whole game, but it also is unlikely to kill you.
Three wins: Gargoyle Earth Elementalist of Ash, Ogre Fighter of Ru, Deep Dwarf Fighter of Makhleb (0.16 bugbuild :( )

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 19

Joined: Tuesday, 21st January 2014, 09:05

Post Friday, 7th February 2014, 15:18

Re: Wrath reform

Penance level could be made proportional to your piety - a god doesn't care too much if someone who only just started worshipping them abandons them, but really hates it when one of their most devout followers changes religion?

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 508

Joined: Tuesday, 1st November 2011, 00:36

Post Friday, 7th February 2014, 15:56

Re: Wrath reform

That would let you just waste all your piety before leaving.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1776

Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57

Location: South Carolina

Post Friday, 7th February 2014, 16:19

Re: Wrath reform

Use max piety achieved instead of current piety on leaving, multiplied by the number of turns spent worshipping or the experience gained while worshipping.

Makhleb wrath should be negative hp-on-kills: reduce your hp every time you kill something. Never fatal itself, and you just killed something, so you aren't in danger any more from what you were fighting, but you have to either rest after every popcorn fight or suffer from slightly reduced hp.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Friday, 7th February 2014, 18:06

Re: Wrath reform

It's a funny observation that the following branch was created shortly before the OP wrote this post. :)
Yay to Steve!

  Code:
Subject: [crawl-ref-commits] wrath-reform branch created: 0.14-a0-2448-g44cda97

        at  44cda970877abb54cc695f742724b772e999486c (commit)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
commit 44cda970877abb54cc695f742724b772e999486c
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 23:00:36 2014 -0700

    Vehumet wrath: employ actual conjurations, not just miscasts.

    This hijacks the Dith shadow mimic code to fling monster conjurations at
    the player, scaling with XL.

commit 727b109708708ca4e5a766e6e012b83d9e6daddd
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 22:24:24 2014 -0700

    Scale Okawaru's wrath forces with XL; expand list of warriors.

    The list might need to be adjusted further - there are some questionable
    things lurking there right now, and it might not be scaled exceptionally
    accurately in terms of difficulty versus XL. Time will tell, and/or
    someone with more design sense than I do.

commit e3168c01751f49181056cf2d15d9c1f5fb496957
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 22:02:46 2014 -0700

    Scale Trog's berserker wrath monsters better with XL.

    If you abandon Trog *really* early, you might still get overwhelmed with
    berserk bears, but other than that you can probably expect to only see
    berserkers of various sorts shortly before you'd expect to encounter
    them in their normal non-berserk versions.

    This should make Trog wrath considerably more survivable early on.

commit 91cd2db666c1f17986c105853a745d159bdda044
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 21:23:39 2014 -0700

    Only trigger Chei wrath in non-trivial tension situations.

    ...so that its more interesting effects can trigger reliably.

commit 92394c17f387f5d11cf98cd84aaf64a24f4f4de2
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 21:06:16 2014 -0700

    Make divine wrath contingent on XP gain.

    For every 2% of an XL you gain, there's a 10% chance of any particular
    god angry at you attempting divine retribution on the next "every 20
    aut" timer (i.e. 100% chance of *someone* throwing wrath at you if you
    have ten angry gods; less for less gods). This translates into five
    wraths per XL, which, on an average of 2 penance lost per wrath, means
    10 penance is on average equal to one XL worth of wrath.

    For perspective, the following penance values are used on abandonment:
    - 25: Cheibriados, Dith, Makhleb, Vehumet, Zin
    - 30: Elyvilon, Fedhas, Jiyva, Kiku, Yred, TSO
    - 50: Beogh, Dithmengos, Lugonu, Sif Muna, Trog
    - 150: Nemelex Xobeh (but only active above 100 penance)

    ...so for the "normal" wraths (Ashenzari wrath is already special), you
    can expect wrath to last either 2.5 XL, 3 XL, or 5 XL (or an equivalent
    amount of experience).

    These numbers can probably be fudged further.

For this message the author dpeg has received thanks: 3
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Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Friday, 7th February 2014, 21:02

Re: Wrath reform

Yes, thanks Steve (hope you read this).

This patch was a long time coming, glad it might finally go in.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 87

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 17:40

Post Friday, 7th February 2014, 23:22

Re: Wrath reform

dpeg wrote:It's a funny observation that the following branch was created shortly before the OP wrote this post. :)
Yay to Steve!

  Code:
Subject: [crawl-ref-commits] wrath-reform branch created: 0.14-a0-2448-g44cda97

        at  44cda970877abb54cc695f742724b772e999486c (commit)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
commit 44cda970877abb54cc695f742724b772e999486c
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 23:00:36 2014 -0700

    Vehumet wrath: employ actual conjurations, not just miscasts.

    This hijacks the Dith shadow mimic code to fling monster conjurations at
    the player, scaling with XL.

commit 727b109708708ca4e5a766e6e012b83d9e6daddd
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 22:24:24 2014 -0700

    Scale Okawaru's wrath forces with XL; expand list of warriors.

    The list might need to be adjusted further - there are some questionable
    things lurking there right now, and it might not be scaled exceptionally
    accurately in terms of difficulty versus XL. Time will tell, and/or
    someone with more design sense than I do.

commit e3168c01751f49181056cf2d15d9c1f5fb496957
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 22:02:46 2014 -0700

    Scale Trog's berserker wrath monsters better with XL.

    If you abandon Trog *really* early, you might still get overwhelmed with
    berserk bears, but other than that you can probably expect to only see
    berserkers of various sorts shortly before you'd expect to encounter
    them in their normal non-berserk versions.

    This should make Trog wrath considerably more survivable early on.

commit 91cd2db666c1f17986c105853a745d159bdda044
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 21:23:39 2014 -0700

    Only trigger Chei wrath in non-trivial tension situations.

    ...so that its more interesting effects can trigger reliably.

commit 92394c17f387f5d11cf98cd84aaf64a24f4f4de2
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Feb 4 21:06:16 2014 -0700

    Make divine wrath contingent on XP gain.

    For every 2% of an XL you gain, there's a 10% chance of any particular
    god angry at you attempting divine retribution on the next "every 20
    aut" timer (i.e. 100% chance of *someone* throwing wrath at you if you
    have ten angry gods; less for less gods). This translates into five
    wraths per XL, which, on an average of 2 penance lost per wrath, means
    10 penance is on average equal to one XL worth of wrath.

    For perspective, the following penance values are used on abandonment:
    - 25: Cheibriados, Dith, Makhleb, Vehumet, Zin
    - 30: Elyvilon, Fedhas, Jiyva, Kiku, Yred, TSO
    - 50: Beogh, Dithmengos, Lugonu, Sif Muna, Trog
    - 150: Nemelex Xobeh (but only active above 100 penance)

    ...so for the "normal" wraths (Ashenzari wrath is already special), you
    can expect wrath to last either 2.5 XL, 3 XL, or 5 XL (or an equivalent
    amount of experience).

    These numbers can probably be fudged further.

That's almost EXACTLY what I was proposing. :D
Thanks so much, Steve!

Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 7th February 2014, 23:29

Re: Wrath reform

We have been putting "wrath reform" on agendas for years... and admittedly, the original proposals were a lesson in bloating. I am really excited: not only does this address a troublesome heritage, it also paves the way for Lugonu altar desecration (I have no clue if this was ever an argument when setting up the wrath-reform branch, and if so, in which direction :)) -- and who wouldn't want to desecrate some altars in the name of the Abyssical god?

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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 01:03

Re: Wrath reform

Would it be possible to make all wrath run out with XP like Ash's? The current system leaves open the possibility of tediously waiting out wrath.

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

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Location: USA

Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 01:08

Re: Wrath reform

Leafsnail wrote:Would it be possible to make all wrath run out with XP like Ash's? The current system leaves open the possibility of tediously waiting out wrath.


Maybe I'm misreading, but I think this was one of the changes in the wrath patch coded by Steve M. that dpeg just posted about. So yes, tedious wrath avoidance looks like it will be a thing of the past (assuming this is implemented).

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1031

Joined: Friday, 26th April 2013, 19:52

Location: AZ, USA

Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 01:14

Re: Wrath reform

You're not misreading, that is indeed part of it. The most important part, I think.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 508

Joined: Tuesday, 1st November 2011, 00:36

Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 02:41

Re: Wrath reform

I missed the scrollbar in that code window, my bad. 5 XL seems like too long a time to have wrath up for but I'm not sure how it compares to the current durations.
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Dungeon Master

Posts: 291

Joined: Wednesday, 6th June 2012, 18:59

Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 05:03

Re: Wrath reform

This is my branch, for the record, and the main crux of it is the first (last in the given list) patch, which does tie wrath to XP (more or less) - sort of like evolution, every now and again the game checks if you've earned enough XP to do another wrath check and if so, triggers the chance to throw wrath of you. In my own brief testing of it, you tend to get wrath thrown at you during major battles or immediately after them (exactly when a god would try to kill you - you're worn out and weakened).

The rest of the commits are me tinkering with god wraths I find problematic (or boring) in some fashion, mainly inspired by me taking a low level character with this patch and angering everyone and seeing what kind of wrath results from it. Eventually I might want to review all of the wraths to get them up to scratch.

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Swamp Slogger

Posts: 174

Joined: Thursday, 15th November 2012, 02:12

Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 14:43

Re: Wrath reform

You should get some testers from anyone participating in viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10812 :)
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Dungeon Master

Posts: 162

Joined: Sunday, 29th May 2011, 10:18

Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 17:27

Re: Wrath reform

(This is mainly a question for grunt and dpeg)

For Chei wrath, I was thinking of also keeping the player slow. Too onerous?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 19:14

Re: Wrath reform

If chei wrath kept you slow the main thing to me is that would be incredibly not-fun. Characters who abandon chei are already in trouble in one way by losing their stat boosts ... if you throw in slow movement on top of that I wouldn't ever even think about leaving chei since my character is just completely awful for so long. And I'm even assuming here that chei does nothing else for wrath. If that's the goal then ok, but it seems to me that shouldn't be the goal.

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duvessa

Dungeon Master

Posts: 553

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd December 2010, 10:12

Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 19:54

Re: Wrath reform

brendan wrote:For Chei wrath, I was thinking of also keeping the player slow. Too onerous?

Personally, I don't think god wrath should be a "constant pentalty" like that. It's better to stick to the regular model of the god occasionally (and generally unpredictably) lashing out at you. The wrath should be themed, and it makes sense for chei wrath to involve slowing, obviously. But having the wrath be active all the time is very harsh and would make it so no one ever abandons the god. I don't think of crawl gods as all-powerful, and I think if you abandon them, you have mostly shut off their ability to affect you. Wrath is what happens when they get a chance to strike, so it's not something that can be affecting you all the time.

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Dungeon Master

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Post Saturday, 8th February 2014, 20:18

Re: Wrath reform

Agreed with crate and evilmike. Cheibriados should be able to slow your movement at times and (obviously more rarely) do Slow on you, but neither of them permanent.

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Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 9th February 2014, 03:46

Re: Wrath reform

evilmike wrote:Personally, I don't think god wrath should be a "constant pentalty" like that. It's better to stick to the regular model of the god occasionally (and generally unpredictably) lashing out at you.
Does this mean the passive Sif wrath effect of increasing spell cast failure is going away?
On IRC my nick is reaverb. I play online under the name reaver, though.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Sunday, 9th February 2014, 04:13

Re: Wrath reform

reaver: There's a huge difference between permanent spell chance modifications and permanent slow movement. The former can be prepared for and adapted to, and the process will not necessarily be tedious (it may be hard, but that's another matter -- tools of wizardry and experience to pump into schools do exist).

The result is more important than some abstract principles, and I'd go as far as saying that for Sif Muna, permanent spell success reduction plays better than that reduction (or perhaps an amplified version) in sudden bursts. Your question reminds me a lot of the recent discussion why Wild Magic is a 'beneficial' mutation when Berserikitis is not, and they both share some properties (double-edged, can be adapted to). These play differently, and these differences are stronger than the formal similarities.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 70

Joined: Saturday, 16th November 2013, 20:39

Post Tuesday, 11th February 2014, 13:09

Re: Wrath reform

Just played a game in trunk and abandoned oka. Some things I noticed:

-Oka can and will often bring bring wrath on you while you are still dealing with current summons.
-Sometimes there seem to be situations where you deal with his wrath every few turns, (while I was in Vault 4 I had about 5 in a row, without any other monsters around).

I can't really say whether I think the change is good or bad, it did kind of indirectly lead to my death and Oka's wrath is definitely more dangerous now. Probably wouldn't abandon him again with the current mode.

Morgue for anyone curious

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-2564-g94087c3 (webtiles) character file.

317856 SublimeSnake the Acrobat (level 21, 0/188 HPs)
             Began as a Merfolk Gladiator on Feb 10, 2014.
             Was a Believer of the Shining One.
             Succumbed to the power of Zot's residual poison
             ... on Level 2 of the Vaults on Feb 11, 2014.
             The game lasted 06:11:59 (58023 turns).

SublimeSnake the Acrobat (Merfolk Gladiator)       Turns: 58023, Time: 06:11:59

HP   0/188       AC 27     Str 18      XL: 21   Next: 38%
MP  33/33        EV 31     Int  9      God: the Shining One [**....]
Gold 2150        SH  0     Dex 23      Spells:  2 memorised, 29 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     S - +4,+12 Glaive of Prune {chop}
rCold  + + +     Clarity  +     y - +7 ice dragon armour
rNeg   + . .     Conserve .     (no shield)
rPois  .         rCorr    .     f - +2 hat of the Alchemist {rElec rF+ rC+ MR+}
rElec  +         rRot     .     m - -1 cloak
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     w - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     v - +2 pair of boots {Stlth+}
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     T - amulet of clarity
MR     ++...                    I - +0,+8 ring of slaying
                                q - ring "Pimel" {rF+ Str+3}

@: non-regenerating, extremely poisoned, mildly diseased, glowing, very
resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: change form in water, swift swim, sense surroundings 1
a: Divine Shield, Renounce Religion
}: 2/15 runes: decaying, gossamer


You were on level 2 of the Vaults.
You worshipped the Shining One.
The Shining One was pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and saw 47 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You also visited: Labyrinth and Sewer.

You collected 4476 gold pieces.
You spent 2326 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 j - a +2,+5 demon trident
 s - a +2,+0 demon trident of flaming
 C - a +1,+2 vampiric demon trident
 S - the +4,+12 Glaive of Prune (weapon) {chop}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
Missiles
 p - 4 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 f - the +2 hat of the Alchemist (worn) {rElec rF+ rC+ MR+}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Depths)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 h - a +2 buckler of reflection
 m - a -1 cloak (worn)
 v - a +2 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
 w - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 y - a +7 ice dragon armour (worn)
Magical devices
 e - a wand of disintegration (13)
 A - a wand of heal wounds (0)
 B - a wand of disintegration (11)
 M - a wand of digging (2)
 O - a wand of disintegration (8)
 Y - a wand of teleportation (3)
Comestibles
 i - 12 meat rations
 J - a royal jelly
Scrolls
 g - 2 scrolls of fog
 k - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 n - a scroll of amnesia
Jewellery
 b - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 c - an uncursed amulet of rage
 d - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 q - the ring "Pimel" (left hand) {rF+ Str+3}
   (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of strength]
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
 r - an uncursed amulet of guardian spirit
 t - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand
 x - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 G - a +4 ring of dexterity
 I - a +0,+8 ring of slaying (right hand)
 L - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 N - an uncursed amulet of warding
 T - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
Potions
 a - a potion of invisibility
 z - a potion of magic
 D - 2 potions of brilliance
 Z - a potion of resistance
Miscellaneous
 o - a fan of gales (inert)


   Skills:
 + Level 21.8 Fighting
 - Level 20.0 Polearms
 - Level 5.0 Throwing
 + Level 9.4 Armour
 + Level 22.6 Dodging
   Level 1.4 Shields
 - Level 7.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 6.0 Charms
 - Level 4.0 Necromancy
 - Level 3.0 Translocations
   Level 7.1 Invocations
 - Level 11.0 Evocations


You had 29 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      ##........   14%         2    ##.....
b - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ##........   21%         3    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (16/16)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (4/4) D:10
    Elf (0/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:9           Swamp (5/5) Lair:3
 Spider (5/5) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:8       Vaults (4/5) D:14
  Blade (1/1) Vaults:3      Crypt (1/5) Vaults:2     Depths (2/6) D:16

Altars:
Ashenzari
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:7 %   Orc:2 ?   Orc:4 ![*:   Vaults:4 ?   Depths:1 /

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2
Abyss: Depths:1
Ziggurat: Depths:2


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You revert to your normal form in water.
You are very nimble and swift while swimming.
You passively map a small area around you.


Message History

Put on which piece of jewellery? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Wear which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
(D) Dungeon        (T) Temple         (O) Orcish Mines   (E) Elven Halls   
(L) Lair           (S) Swamp          (N) Spider Nest    (M) Slime Pits     
(V) Vaults         (B) Hall of Blades (C) Crypt          (H) Hell           
(U) Depths         
Where to? (Enter - Vaults:4 @ (x,y), ? - help)
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You feel sick.
(D) Dungeon        (T) Temple         (O) Orcish Mines   (E) Elven Halls   
(L) Lair           (S) Swamp          (N) Spider Nest    (M) Slime Pits     
(V) Vaults         (B) Hall of Blades (C) Crypt          (H) Hell           
(U) Depths         
Where to? (Enter - Vaults:4 @ (x,y), ? - help)
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You feel extremely sick.
There is an open door here.
You die...

..........##########...........#
...............................#
...............................##
###########....#############...#(
..........#....#...........#...#.
..........#....#.8.#####.8.#)..#.
.#######..#....#...#...#...'...##
.#     #..#....#.###._.###.#...#
.#     #<.'....#@#.......#.#...#
.#     #.('....#.'...>...#.#...#
.#     #..#....#.#.(.....#.#...##
.#     #(.#....#.###[_.###.#.....
.#######(.#....#...#...#...#.....
.......((.#....#.8.#####.8.#.....
.......!..#....#[..........#.....
#####''#########'###########.....
  ##...##     ##.......##  #.....


There were no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Mara (Vaults:4)
  A bone dragon (Swamp:5)
  A lich (Depths:1)
  A titan (Vaults:4)
  Asterion (Swamp:2)
  A large abomination (Vaults:4)
  A sphinx (Vaults:1)
  A storm dragon (Vaults:3)
  2 thorn hunters
  Rupert (Lair:4)
  Kirke (Spider:1)
  2 fire giants (Vaults:4)
  7 vault wardens
  Maud (Lair:3)
  6 frost giants
  4 ghost moths (Spider:5)
  3 deep elf sorcerers
  Louise (Swamp:2)
  3 emperor scorpions (Spider:5)
  Gastronok (Lair:3)
  16 stone giants
  A deep elf demonologist (Vaults:3)
  An eidolon (D:13)
  2 spriggan defenders (Depths:1)
  Azrael (D:15)
  A deep elf annihilator (Vaults:3)
  3 ettins
  2 vault guards (Vaults:1)
  A minotaur (Lab)
  3 ironheart preservers
  A fire dragon (Vaults:4)
  A small abomination (Vaults:4)
  22 yaktaur captains
  Fannar (Lair:6)
  19 hydras
  10 spriggans
  7 ogre magi
  2 ice dragons
  4 shambling mangroves
  Nessos (D:15)
  11 alligators
  A ravenous feature mimic (Swamp:4)
  6 dancing weapons
  Erica (Lair:6)
  A deep troll shaman (Depths:1)
  7 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  2 plague shamblers
  15 centaur warriors
  A vampire mage (Depths:1)
  3 naga warriors
  A hell hog (Depths:1)
  Urug (D:15)
  A fire crab (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  3 spriggan druids (Swamp:5)
  11 very ugly things
  A sun demon (Depths:1)
  5 hell knights
  An unseen horror (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  3 skeletal warriors (Crypt:1)
  A storm dragon skeleton (Crypt:1)
  An iron troll (Vaults:4)
  2 deep elf knights
  A death drake (Swamp:5)
  A deep troll (Vaults:3)
  A swamp dragon (Swamp:1)
  22 hill giants
  3 unseen horrors
  3 flayed ghosts
  4 spectral hydras (Swamp:5)
  Pikel (D:4)
  9 ironbrand convokers
  32 wolf spiders
  4 giant amoebae
  A lindwurm (Lair:4)
  15 orc knights
  13 cyclopes
  9 harpies
  2 phantasmal warriors (Swamp:5)
  9 red wasps
  5 spiny worms
  4 griffons
  A guardian serpent (Lair:8)
  7 necromancers
  A moth of wrath (Spider:5)
  A stone giant zombie (Crypt:1)
  2 orc sorcerers
  An octopode (D:10)
  13 vault sentinels
  6 elephants (Lair:8)
  A stone giant skeleton (D:16)
  A deep elf summoner (Vaults:4)
  A sixfirhy (D:16)
  7 black mambas
  A fire giant skeleton (Vaults:1)
  The ghost of SkaryMonk the Reanimator, an experienced DDNe (D:6)
  A vapour (Swamp:1)
  21 spiny frogs
  A spiny frog (shapeshifter) (D:16)
  3 fire drakes
  24 orb spiders
  42 yaktaurs
  A yaktaur zombie (Vaults:1)
  6 komodo dragons
  A tengu conjurer (Depths:1)
  2 swamp worm zombies (Swamp:5)
  A guardian mummy (D:16)
  14 demonic crawlers
  4 formicid venom magi (Spider:2)
  A blue devil (Orc:4)
  3 deep elf priests
  A naga mage (Depths:2)
  10 jumping spiders
  A harpy zombie (D:14)
  Sonja (Orc:2)
  8 giant fireflies
  An iron devil (Depths:1)
  A catoblepas zombie (Crypt:1)
  8 hydra zombies
  50 slime creatures
  7 giant leeches
  An iron troll skeleton (Vaults:1)
  8 baby alligators
  15 blink frogs
  5 trolls
  3 boulder beetles
  A minotaur skeleton (Lab)
  5 alligator zombies (Swamp:5)
  A thorn lotus (Swamp:4)
  2 spectral swamp dragons (Swamp:5)
  10 bog bodies
  2 grizzly bears
  13 two-headed ogres
  2 ugly thing zombies (D:16)
  16 formicids (Spider:2)
  A human zombie (Vaults:1)
  25 ravens
  3 basilisks
  A baby alligator (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  2 basilisks (shapeshifter)
  29 redbacks
  6 flying skulls (Crypt:1)
  4 wyverns
  A fire dragon skeleton (Crypt:1)
  A grizzly bear (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  A tarantella (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  A trapdoor spider (shapeshifter) (D:16)
  86 ugly things
  2 shadows (D:14)
  A hill giant zombie (D:14)
  10 trapdoor spiders
  A griffon skeleton (D:16)
  A steam dragon (D:13)
  The ghost of letownia the Ruffian, an average TrWr of Cheibriados (D:4)
  2 hogs (Spider:1)
  11 wraiths
  52 yaks
  7 vampires
  Eustachio (D:7)
  21 tarantellas
  3 fire bats (D:13)
  A hog (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  3 deep elf magi
  An elephant slug (Lair:7)
  An ugly thing skeleton (D:16)
  7 hippogriffs
  2 manticores
  12 sharks
  3 deep elf fighters (Vaults:3)
  A plague shambler skeleton (Crypt:1)
  4 hungry ghosts
  2 fire elementals (D:15)
  A spiny worm zombie (D:14)
  A spriggan skeleton (Crypt:1)
  33 vampire mosquitoes
  5 wolves
  A necrophage (D:13)
  21 swamp worms
  2 hill giant skeletons
  A soldier ant (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  An ogre zombie (D:14)
  8 porcupines
  6 sky beasts
  2 ice beasts (Lair:6)
  6 swamp drakes
  9 giant goldfish
  2 gargoyles (Lab)
  2 nagas (Depths:2)
  An ogre skeleton (Vaults:1)
  4 hell hounds (D:15)
  9 yellow wasps
  3 freezing wraiths
  30 ogres
  A slave (D:4)
  A black bear (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  2 swamp dragon zombies (Swamp:5)
  A black bear (D:6)
  8 phantoms
  26 centaurs
  4 tengu (D:16)
  30 orc warriors
  8 wargs
  Sigmund (D:7)
  Duvessa (D:8)
  14 giant slugs
  2 rotting devils (Orc:4)
  16 crocodiles
  4 big kobolds
  A brain worm (D:12)
  6 gnoll sergeants
  20 water moccasins
  A yaktaur skeleton (D:16)
  10 agate snails
  A deep troll simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  14 orc wizards
  21 giant frogs
  A manticore skeleton (Crypt:1)
  46 insubstantial wisps
  A cyclops skeleton (D:15)
  2 eyes of draining
  An orc simulacrum (Vaults:2)
  4 killer bees (D:16)
  An orb spider zombie (Crypt:1)
  10 jellyfish
  8 wights
  10 electric eels
  A quasit (D:13)
  A spectral elf (D:8)
  13 hounds
  Dowan (D:8)
  2 yaktaur simulacra
  13 big fish
  14 crimson imps
  9 jellies
  5 goliath beetles
  Crazy Yiuf (D:7)
  34 orc priests
  2 giant frog skeletons
  2 centaur skeletons
  2 gnoll shamans (D:10)
  4 iron imps (Depths:1)
  13 spiders
  6 scorpions
  A spectral swamp drake (Swamp:5)
  13 iguanas
  An orange rat (D:10)
  15 worker ants
  6 sheep
  A mummy (D:12)
  A hound skeleton (D:9)
  A worker ant zombie (D:6)
  A swamp drake zombie (Swamp:5)
  25 adders
  38 green rats
  An inept item mimic (D:5)
  A shadow imp (D:12)
  2 white imps
  13 giant centipedes
  9 giant mites
  37 gnolls
  7 worms
  4 grey rats (D:10)
  2 iguana skeletons (D:5)
  4 giant eyeballs
  24 giant geckos
  2 oozes
  141 orcs
  14 goblins
  18 hobgoblins
  34 jackals
  4 quokkas
  11 ball pythons
  26 bats
  17 giant cockroaches
  A giant gecko skeleton (D:7)
  19 giant newts
  A giant spore (D:16)
  A hobgoblin zombie (D:6)
  35 kobolds
  4 orc skeletons
  2 orc zombies (D:6)
  28 rats
  A ballistomycete (D:12)
  A briar patch (Swamp:3)
  A crawling corpse (Vaults:4)
  6 plants
2131 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A storm dragon skeleton (Crypt:1)
  3 ugly things (Vaults:4)
  An orc warrior (Crypt:1)
  A centaur (Vaults:4)
  A giant frog (Sewer)
  A jelly (Sewer)
  A giant mite (Sewer)
9 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A fire giant (Crypt:1)
  A frost giant (Vaults:4)
  A cyclops (D:15)
  4 air elementals
  A wyvern (Lair:8)
  A redback (Spider:1)
  2 humans (Spider:1)
  2 orc warriors (Vaults:4)
  A slave (D:4)
  A giant slug (D:16)
  A lost soul (Crypt:1)
  2 orc wizards (D:4)
  4 spiders (Spider:1)
  2 orcs
  A giant spore (D:12)
  A briar patch (Swamp:3)
  7 fungi
  9 plants
42 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2182 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | SublimeSnake, the Merfolk Gladiator, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 1/1
    68 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 18/23 MP: 2/2
   654 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Polearms
   867 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 12/28 MP: 3/3
  1139 | D:2      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  1574 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 29/34 MP: 4/4
  1823 | D:3      | Noticed a giant frog
  1831 | D:3      | Killed a giant frog
  1831 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Polearms
  1831 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  1831 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 30/41 MP: 5/5
  2050 | D:3      | Found a glowing drain.
  2068 | Sewer    | Entered a sewer
  2074 | Sewer    | Reached skill level 7 in Polearms
  2272 | Sewer    | Reached XP level 6. HP: 47/47 MP: 6/6
  2716 | Sewer    | Reached skill level 8 in Polearms
  2716 | Sewer    | Reached XP level 7. HP: 34/53 MP: 7/7
  3332 | D:4      | Noticed Pikel
  3691 | D:4      | Killed Pikel
  3691 | D:4      | Reached skill level 9 in Polearms
  3691 | D:4      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 54/61 MP: 8/8
  3750 | D:4      | Noticed letownia's ghost (average TrWr)
  3766 | D:4      | Killed letownia's ghost
  3766 | D:4      | Reached skill level 10 in Polearms
  3835 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  4196 | D:4      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  4329 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4672 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4681 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4711 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru
  4729 | D:5      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
  4857 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
  4901 | D:5      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 56/68 MP: 9/9
  4913 | D:5      | Reached skill level 11 in Polearms
  5025 | D:5      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  5082 | D:5      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  5098 | D:5      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  5214 | D:6      | Noticed SkaryMonk's ghost (experienced DDNe)
  5266 | D:7      | Noticed Eustachio
  5277 | D:7      | Killed Eustachio
  5344 | D:7      | Found Zaehu's Food Boutique.
  5354 | D:7      | Acquired Okawaru's first power
  5449 | D:7      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmengos.
  5449 | D:7      | Noticed Sigmund
  5454 | D:7      | Killed Sigmund
  5781 | D:6      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  5866 | D:6      | Reached skill level 12 in Polearms
  6080 | D:6      | Killed SkaryMonk's ghost
  6191 | D:6      | Got a creamy pearl robe
  6200 | D:6      | Identified the +1 robe "Reeh Yss" {Str+4 Int+2} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  6383 | D:7      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  6388 | D:7      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  6693 | D:7      | Reached skill level 13 in Polearms
  6704 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 62/79 MP: 10/10
  6862 | D:8      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  6963 | D:8      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  6984 | D:8      | Got a colourful robe
  6990 | D:8      | Identified the +1 robe of Tenacity {rF+ rN+ Stlth+} (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
  7113 | D:8      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  7246 | D:8      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  7287 | D:8      | Noticed Duvessa
  7288 | D:8      | Noticed Dowan
  7297 | D:8      | Killed Duvessa
  7300 | D:8      | Killed Dowan
  7364 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
  7659 | D:9      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  7851 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  8008 | D:9      | Reached skill level 14 in Polearms
  8562 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  8587 | D:10     | Noticed an octopode
  8597 | D:10     | Killed an octopode
  8962 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  9221 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 15 in Polearms
  9332 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 76/89 MP: 8/11
  9984 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  9994 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 10185 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
 10228 | Lair:1   | Got an ichor-stained leather armour
 10235 | Lair:1   | Identified the +0 leather armour "Pixkya" {Str+3 Dex+2} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 11385 | Lair:2   | Acquired Okawaru's second power
 11793 | Lair:3   | Noticed Maud
 11807 | Lair:3   | Killed Maud
 11840 | Lair:3   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 12027 | Lair:3   | Noticed Gastronok
 12050 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 12066 | Lair:3   | Received a gift from Okawaru
 12067 | Lair:3   | Got a slimy helmet {god gift}
 12080 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 66/99 MP: 19/19
 12111 | Lair:3   | Identified the +1 helmet "Usuighip" {Dex+4} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)
 12603 | Lair:3   | Killed Gastronok
 12603 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 12708 | Lair:3   | Gained mutation: You passively map a small area around you. [potion of beneficial mutation]
 13149 | Lair:4   | Noticed Rupert
 13159 | Lair:4   | Paralysed by Rupert for 6 turns
 13181 | Lair:4   | Killed Rupert
 13589 | Lair:4   | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
 14264 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
 15018 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Okawaru
 15363 | Lair:5   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 83/108 MP: 24/24
 15783 | Lair:6   | Noticed Fannar
 15819 | Lair:6   | Killed Fannar
 16078 | Lair:6   | Noticed Erica
 16098 | Lair:6   | Killed Erica
 16251 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 16 in Polearms
 16297 | Lair:6   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 16306 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Okawaru
 17512 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 17901 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 17955 | Lair:8   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 18711 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 17 in Polearms
 19639 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 110/116 MP: 23/25
 19705 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Okawaru
 20336 | D:10     | Reached skill level 18 in Polearms
 20779 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 20799 | D:10     | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 20838 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 20846 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 22846 | D:13     | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 23194 | D:13     | Got a wavering silver ring
 23307 | D:13     | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 23341 | D:13     | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 23352 | D:13     | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 23359 | D:13     | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
 23362 | D:13     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 23377 | D:13     | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
 23407 | D:13     | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 23425 | D:13     | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 24180 | D:14     | Identified the ring "Pimel" {rF+ Str+3} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
 24209 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 24246 | D:14     | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 24258 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 24581 | Lab      | Reached skill level 19 in Polearms
 26231 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 26433 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 26544 | Orc:2    | Noticed Sonja
 26551 | Orc:2    | Killed Sonja
 26607 | Orc:2    | Found Ojualora's Magic Scroll Shop.
 26628 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 26628 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 71 gold pieces
 26628 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 26628 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 26628 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 26726 | Orc:3    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 26815 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 26928 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26931 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Okawaru
 26962 | Orc:4    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 103/126 MP: 25/25
 27196 | Orc:4    | Found Schatt's Armour Shop.
 27219 | Orc:4    | Found Gow Asacw's Distillery.
 27419 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 27618 | Orc:4    | Found Duskacum's General Store.
 27646 | Orc:4    | Found Biriuner's Book Shop.
 27721 | Orc:4    | Bought a +3 leather armour of magic resistance for 526 gold pieces
 27890 | Orc:4    | Bought a book of Battle for 480 gold pieces
 27894 | Orc:4    | Learned a level 2 spell: Shroud of Golubria
 27898 | Orc:4    | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 28354 | D:15     | Noticed Azrael
 28357 | D:15     | Killed Azrael
 28504 | D:15     | Noticed Urug
 28510 | D:15     | Killed Urug
 28700 | D:15     | Noticed Nessos
 28720 | D:15     | Killed Nessos
 29499 | D:16     | Entered Level 16 of the Dungeon
 29580 | D:16     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 30544 | D:16     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 30584 | D:16     | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 30584 | D:16     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 105/136 MP: 19/26
 30635 | D:16     | Reached skill level 20 in Polearms
 31013 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 31672 | Swamp:1  | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 31683 | Swamp:1  | Received a gift from Okawaru
 32242 | Swamp:1  | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 32492 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Asterion
 32508 | Swamp:2  | Killed Asterion
 32630 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Louise
 32647 | Swamp:2  | Killed Louise
 33476 | Swamp:3  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 33493 | Swamp:3  | Killed a thorn hunter
 34164 | Swamp:4  | Received a gift from Okawaru
 34435 | Swamp:4  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 34440 | Swamp:4  | Killed a thorn hunter
 34583 | Swamp:4  | Reached XP level 17. HP: 136/144 MP: 29/31
 34948 | Swamp:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Swamp
 35498 | Swamp:5  | Received a gift from Okawaru
 36676 | Swamp:5  | Noticed a bone dragon
 36689 | Swamp:5  | Killed a bone dragon
 36755 | Swamp:5  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 37257 | Lair:3   | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-2542-g51e44bb to 0.14-a0-2564-g94087c3
 37344 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 37459 | Spider:1 | Noticed Kirke
 37471 | Spider:1 | Killed Kirke
 38363 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 38491 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 38827 | Spider:3 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 38828 | Spider:3 | Got a pair of faintly glowing boots {god gift}
 38832 | Spider:3 | Identified the -4 pair of boots of Jerifa {MR+ Str+1 Stlth--} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Spider Nest)
 39156 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 39167 | Spider:3 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 128/156 MP: 31/31
 40640 | Spider:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Spider Nest
 41159 | Spider:5 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 41400 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
 41737 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 21 in Dodging
 42187 | Spider:5 | Paralysed by a red wasp for 1 turns
 42679 | Spider:5 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
 43242 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 43595 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 44463 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 164/164 MP: 32/32
 44535 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 45442 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 45442 | Vaults:2 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
 45443 | Vaults:2 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
 45698 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 45982 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 22 in Dodging
 47010 | Vaults:3 | Found a staircase to the Hall of Blades.
 47195 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 47196 | Vaults:3 | Got a slimy halberd {god gift}
 47197 | Vaults:3 | Identified the +8,+6 halberd of Terra Nullius {vamp, rN+ Stlth} (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Vaults)
 47690 | Vaults:3 | Cast into the Abyss (deep elf sorcerer)
 47783 | Vaults:3 | Escaped the Abyss
 47850 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 48355 | Vaults:3 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 176/176 MP: 32/32
 48672 | Blade    | Entered the Hall of Blades
 49142 | Vaults:4 | Found Okoom's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
 49213 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 49927 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 50160 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Mara
 50834 | Orc:4    | Bought a +2 pair of boots of stealth for 283 gold pieces
 51075 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 51534 | Depths:1 | Found Olaurrao's Magical Wand Shop.
 51546 | Depths:1 | Bought a wand of heal wounds (4) for 720 gold pieces
 51726 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 52131 | Depths:1 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 52881 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
 53645 | Depths:2 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
 53963 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 54162 | Depths:2 | Received a gift from Okawaru
 54589 | D:6      | Fell from the grace of Okawaru
 54589 | D:6      | Became a worshipper of the Shining One
 55390 | Vaults:4 | Killed Mara
 55628 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 154/187 MP: 33/33
 57484 | Vaults:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 71 gold pieces
 57484 | Vaults:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 71 gold pieces
 57528 | Vaults:4 | Acquired the Shining One's first power
 57786 | Crypt:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Crypt
 58005 | Crypt:1  | Acquired the Shining One's second power
 58022 | Vaults:2 | HP: 3/188 [poisoned by the power of Zot (residual poison)]
 58023 | Vaults:2 | Succumbed to the power of Zot's residual poison


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Trident           |   133 |   236 |    10 |       |    35 |   159 |    21 ||   594
       Spear             |       |       |    90 |       |       |       |       ||    90
       Halberd           |       |       |   347 |   973 |       |       |       ||  1320
       Glaive            |       |       |       |    82 |  1769 |  1330 |  1440 ||  4621
       Demon trident     |       |       |       |       |       |       |   115 ||   115
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
Throw: Dart              |       |     4 |    17 |    19 |     1 |       |       ||    41
       Javelin           |       |       |    62 |    37 |    48 |    55 |     2 ||   204
       Throwing net      |       |       |     6 |     2 |     1 |     2 |       ||    11
 Cast: Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     4 ||     7
       Shroud of Golubri |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
Invok: Heroism           |       |       |       |    12 |    22 |    30 |    26 ||    90
       Finesse           |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |     1 |     8 |     1 |    15 |    14 |    34 |    15 ||    88
       Fan of gales      |       |       |       |       |       |       |     5 ||     5
  Use: Scroll            |     6 |     4 |    13 |    10 |    21 |    14 |    27 ||    95
       Potion            |       |     1 |     6 |     8 |     6 |    12 |    13 ||    46
 Stab: Distracted        |     1 |       |       |     2 |     4 |     1 |     4 ||    12
       Sleeping          |       |     2 |     1 |    13 |     5 |    10 |     8 ||    39
       Invisible         |       |       |     5 |     7 |    10 |       |       ||    22
       Held in net/web   |       |       |     2 |     4 |       |     2 |       ||     8
       Fleeing           |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |     1 ||     2

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 832

Joined: Wednesday, 17th April 2013, 13:28

Post Tuesday, 11th February 2014, 13:30

Re: Wrath reform

Seems to have been a bug:

  Code:
From fbf5f54b51427df176ce3aa8c88dacd2fd709232 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:29:49 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] Be less hyperactive with god wrath.

With the previous code, 1% of an XL gained would guarantee wrath at some
later date, i.e. the timer code wouldn't count failing the 10% check
against the stored wrath counter.

The relevant code was intended to check for gods for which
divine_retribution returns false (dead Jiyva, Ashenzari), which it does
now.


Too bad for your character though.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 70

Joined: Saturday, 16th November 2013, 20:39

Post Tuesday, 11th February 2014, 18:29

Re: Wrath reform

DracheReborn wrote:Seems to have been a bug:

  Code:
From fbf5f54b51427df176ce3aa8c88dacd2fd709232 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:29:49 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] Be less hyperactive with god wrath.

With the previous code, 1% of an XL gained would guarantee wrath at some
later date, i.e. the timer code wouldn't count failing the 10% check
against the stored wrath counter.

The relevant code was intended to check for gods for which
divine_retribution returns false (dead Jiyva, Ashenzari), which it does
now.


Too bad for your character though.


Wow, bummer. Somehow this makes it worse than just losing a character to a new feature :lol:

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1031

Joined: Friday, 26th April 2013, 19:52

Location: AZ, USA

Post Wednesday, 12th February 2014, 05:44

Re: Wrath reform

I know the wrath got turned down a bit, but it's still a bit too much I think. I just ran a HuCK that abandoned Xom early on D1 for Ash. By my count, he punished me 14x in the next 3.5k turns, before I'd gone further than D:4. The final one was fatal, as he pinned me in a corridor between a chaos spawn and neqoxec, with various other nasties on either side. At some times he punished me with confusion, then mutated me or summoned monsters as I was resting off confusion. It felt like I was playing against Xom, not the dungeon.

Maybe this is desirable, but I thought part of the purpose of the wrath reform was to scale god wrath a bit with player xl. If that is the case, some tweaks still need to be made.
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Dungeon Master

Posts: 291

Joined: Wednesday, 6th June 2012, 18:59

Post Monday, 17th February 2014, 02:38

Re: Wrath reform

So I've been fixing bugs with wrath (the new implementation, that is) so that I can work on some other, newer things. Hooray.

Now, where do I go from here?

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Monday, 17th February 2014, 04:00

Re: Wrath reform

sgrunt wrote:So I've been fixing bugs with wrath (the new implementation, that is) so that I can work on some other, newer things. Hooray.

Now, where do I go from here?


I don't know, man, but you seem to be doing great on your own. I haven't tried them out, but those changes all appear to be sensible steps in the right direction.

Maybe Kiku and/or Yred should be more likely to summon undead based on char_lvl, other than just zombies, which are hardly ever threatening or interesting. Kiku penance involving him casting death's door on random tough enemies you are fighting when they are close to death would be funny.

Chei punishments could probably be reworked, as I'm not sure sleep and slow are all that interesting per se. Maybe he could randomly throw slow, beefy monsters in your way when you are trying to flee from other enemies. Ely's wrath sometimes involves healing enemies you are fighting; I think having the good gods heal and buff strong (based on HD of enemy compared to your char lvl) non-evil enemies would be a thematic form of penance—they won't kill you directly, but they will aid your enemies. Though it makes sense that TSO is willing to just smite your ass if you worship an evil god.

As with the Vehumet change, Fedhas should cast elemental spells against you rather than miscasts.

Lose the translocation miscasts; Lugonu should apply distortion effects and/or randomly do a "mini-corrupt" but with all hostile enemies on the area you are in, rather than just summoning a demon (overlaps with other wrath, also not very thematic). (S)he could also randomly delay or block teleportation, similar to the effect you are under while in the Abyss.

Sif and/or Veh could hit you with a long-lasting, single-square Silence as punishment in high tension situations.

Instead of halving your satiation, Zin should set it to the very top of "starving."
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1881

Joined: Saturday, 7th September 2013, 21:16

Location: Itajubá, MG, Brazil.

Post Monday, 17th February 2014, 09:33

Re: Wrath reform

lugonu should corrupt all altars of the god you are following if you leave it at high xl. "Lugonu is filled with jealousy"
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.
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Shoals Surfer

Posts: 301

Joined: Friday, 8th November 2013, 16:19

Location: Tel'aran'rhiod

Post Monday, 17th February 2014, 09:48

Re: Wrath reform

Hirsch I wrote:lugonu should corrupt all altars of the god you are following if you leave it at high xl. "Lugonu is filled with jealousy"

You'd be stripped of the option of blessing your weapon at the altar of TSO or removing your mutations with Zin, if you are not careful. This only leads to dancing around the altars until the wrath is gone.
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1881

Joined: Saturday, 7th September 2013, 21:16

Location: Itajubá, MG, Brazil.

Post Monday, 17th February 2014, 17:56

Re: Wrath reform

this would be permanent, and yes, that is the point.
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.
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Shoals Surfer

Posts: 301

Joined: Friday, 8th November 2013, 16:19

Location: Tel'aran'rhiod

Post Monday, 17th February 2014, 18:02

Re: Wrath reform

Hirsch I wrote:this would be permanent, and yes, that is the point.

Its only effect is to make the game more annoying, not actually harder for the player. This is why I think it would be a very bad mechanic.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5832

Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30

Post Monday, 17th February 2014, 18:23

Re: Wrath reform

Hirsch I wrote:this would be permanent, and yes, that is the point.


If Lugonu could corrupt all altars, Lugonu would have done it already, without the player's wrath-produced help.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Monday, 17th February 2014, 18:39

Re: Wrath reform

Hm, I actually think some form of permanant debilitation of some sort might be interesting, sort of a permanant 'scar' left on the player for abandoning their god, disabling access to altars seems a bit excessive, but there might be some room there for ideas that work.

I'm not sure what form these would take or even if this should happen at all, but currently wrath is something you "get over" like an illness. If you survive, you are free and clear completely, and I think it'd be interesting if you were slightly handicapped in some (preferably interesting) way for abandoning a god.

I'd say if such penalties were added they should be:
Something that you can only get by abandoning a god.
Unusual (i.e. effects that would not occur in normal play via mutation or the like)
Not overly powerful (This is something you have to be able to live with)
Something that would present different challenges, and be a consideration that you'll have to deal with for the rest of the game.
Consistent for each god so that it's a known, and interesting choice "I know Lucy will always do X to me if I leave, even if I survive her wrath, is it worth it to join another god"?
Something that all gods have (if any do)

Some (Not necessarily good) examples I thought of:

Lucy: You can no longer control any teleportation or blinking.
Jivya: !cure mutations has less effect, amulets of rMut have lessened effect.
Evy: Cure potions no longer heal hps (just cure status effects) Heal potions/Wands have less effect
Trog: Your MP is reduced every time you attack or are attacked.
Sif Muna: Successful memorization of a spell may burn that spellbook.

etc.

The idea is to have a permanant "mark" on you that you carry the rest of the game; While the god may be no longer actively punishing you, they've left you with a scar. I'd say that once you get such a scar, even re-joining that god (and, if applicable, mollifying their wrath) wouldn't eliminate it (Or perhaps would be something you could eliminate at high piety cost once you were high enough piety, or some such).
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1881

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Post Monday, 17th February 2014, 20:05

Re: Wrath reform

XuaXua wrote:
Hirsch I wrote:this would be permanent, and yes, that is the point.


If Lugonu could corrupt all altars, Lugonu would have done it already, without the player's wrath-produced help.

well, there are lots and lots of altars outside the dungeon. maybe the altars get purified after 10 years or so, and lucy cant manage to keep them all corrupted. but she will try harder, just for you.
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 252

Joined: Sunday, 19th May 2013, 21:30

Post Thursday, 6th March 2014, 15:36

Re: Wrath reform

I think Oka wrath is currently way too much. I've had perhaps 7 summons against me in a very short time, and each has titans + giants + master archers/draconians/blademasters. The composition of each summons is not such an issue, it is the high rate.

edit: make that perhaps up to 9 wrath summons in less than two levels of crypt. Most recent= titan, 2 master archers, blademaster, 2FG

Zot Zealot

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Location: AZ, USA

Post Thursday, 6th March 2014, 22:00

Re: Wrath reform

Agreed. I have had similar experiences with Xom, Makhleb, and Lugonu. Boosting the wrath frequency has made it almost impossible to abandon gods, which I think has the opposite of the desired effect.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 03:21

Re: Wrath reform


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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 20:21

Re: Wrath reform

There would be some logic for gifting gods like Trog or Oka wraths being tougher than the others, since you carry some of the benefits even after abandoning them.

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