Velocity Card should not equal Swiftness 2.0

[damiac]

This is the Game Design Discussion forum. Please don't just close threads because you disagree with what the last person said...

This was the original thread, before it was closed for no reason...

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10464

Essentially, the change to swiftness to prevent it being optimal to have up all the time had an obviously unintended consequence of nerfing the velocity card.

As an very early nemelex worshipper, you might find yourself drawing from a deck of escape when more than 5 steps away from a staircase. If you get a velocity card in that situation, it prevents escape, because the penalty from swiftness is worse than the benefit in the long run.

So the proposal was simply that the velocity card not have the swiftness effect, but instead either have a similar effect to the old swiftness, just give haste, or simply be removed altogether. The reasoning is that the purpose of nerfing swiftness does not apply in any way to the velocity card.

Thanks, and please don't just close this thread again for no reason other than a difference of opinion.

[Lasty]

it prevents escape, because the penalty from swiftness is worse than the benefit in the long run.

The new Swiftness is overall speed-neutral.

Also, the previous thread was closed for a good reason: this proposal has been rejected.

[Tiktacy]

it prevents escape, because the penalty from swiftness is worse than the benefit in the long run.

The new Swiftness is overall speed-neutral.

Also, the previous thread was closed for a good reason: this proposal has been rejected.

That's not how GDD works, it's game design DISCUSSION, not game suggestions. If something doesn't quite work, you try to improve or adjust, not lock.

In any case, I agree that velocity should not be the same as new swiftness.

[dck]

Newswift makes velocity better than it already was (and it already was two of the best effects so that's saying something) and just were told in the old thread that it was working as intended and is consistent with the rest of the card behavior, so why bringing this issue up again if you have nothing new to add?

[damiac]

I really don't believe for a second the velocity card was even considered when making the swiftness change, because none of the reasons for the swiftness change apply at all to the velocity card.

The previous thread was locked because I mentioned blind drawing from decks of escape, and Galehar hated the idea of me blind drawing from a deck of escape and not getting screwed so much he locked the thread in a rage.

FAKEDIT: Overall speed neutral < overall speed increase for escaping Dck. It's worse than it was before, except in wild corner cases where i'm 5 steps from a staircase with a speed 8 monster chasing me when I draw it. It was said that it's not a bug, which is true. That doesn't mean it's working as intended. My argument is there weren't any intentions to modify the velocity card, it just happens to use the swiftness effect, so when swiftness was changed, so was it.

I think since everyone except 2 people were FOR the idea, and one of those 2 people closed the thread, maybe I should open a new one, to continue the discussion people are obviously interested in.

[battaile]

Galehar hated the idea of me blind drawing from a deck of escape and not getting screwed so much he locked the thread in a rage.

The overarching point was that it simplifies the codebase to leave it as is, which is a laudable ongoing trend. As much as I hate to defend Galehar, you're being ridiculous here.

[battaile]

Also it was apparently MarvinPA who locked the thread, which makes your "fit of rage" comment even less unlikely.

[damiac]

Whoops, it was MarvinPA, not Galehar.

And since he said

"Blind drawing from decks sometimes has bad effects" is in fact a pretty common theme of decks, so no, that's not a problem or a reason to change it either.

Closing this.

I'd say my "fit of rage" comment was semi accurate. Obviously I was being a bit sarcastic, I don't think he was frothing in rage as he closed the thread or anything, but he did seem to take exception specifically to my post, then say he's closing the discussion thread. But I apologize to Galehar, whose name I unfairly sullied.

Anyway, not complicating the code is a reason not to change it, but of course not complicating the code was a reason not to change swiftness in the first place, so while that's a good goal, it doesn't shut down all game design discussion.

There are plenty of really bad ideas in the GDD forum, and most of them aren't locked...

[Kate]

A thing was suggested, a developer said "nope this thing isn't happening".

You Must Read This Before Posting in GDD

[galehar]

It's worse than it was before, except in wild corner cases where i'm 5 steps from a staircase with a speed 8 monster chasing me when I draw it.

This is a gross exaggeration. It's still a buff in 99% of the cases. Even if you're just fleeing and have to take a couple of steps slowed to reach the stairs, you'll take much less damage. Unless maybe you do something stupid like fight for the whole swift effect and only try to run when slowed and hurt.