Tukima's dance

[headcrab0803]

Since its on the hex category It will be fun to use and more interesting if tukimas dance could effect monsters and allies like haste after a hd/mr check(i think hd check is fits thematically). This will create a friendly/hostile/neutral dancing weapon(this should be talked). What do you guys think? Will this be op?

[sardonica]

It might actually compel people to memorize this spell.

[variouselite]

would this disarm them? or does TD clone the weapon to create a dancing copy?

*edit* nvm silly question sorry

[Arrhythmia]

would this disarm them? or does TD clone the weapon to create a dancing copy?

*edit* nvm silly question sorry

I think it's worth considering. A lot of the danger of some uniques, e.g., Pikel, comes from their very dangerous weapons. If they don't/won't/can't pick the weapon back up, it would effectively neuter them, even if the weapon didn't kill them. Which would, of course, lead to endless "Mara-bread" strategies which would probably piss the blue-names right off.

[and into]

This wouldn't be OP, but would make Tukima's Dance a bit more annoying to use. Currently, one has to carry around a good dancing weapon with a good brand and switch to it before casting—which is a bit awkward and annoying. Having to target it, after that, would make the spell pretty obnoxious, especially since in the vast majority of cases you'd want to target yourself—with OP's proposal, casting TD on an enemy would happen far less often than hasting an ally, by comparison. I mean, think of how many enemies in the game actually carry weapons, first of all—what are the chances they spawn with something that makes a good dancing weapon ally? It would be situational in the extreme. And who wants to e(x)amine enemies all the time to see when it *might* be worth it to cast a spell? I think this just makes getting the most out of TD even more annoying than it is currently.

Tukima's Dance could maybe have its interface improved and not take up extra time with wielding stuff, but it is hard to say how. Bringing up a menu of your inventory every time you cast would be obnoxious in a different way, for instance. The best option would be if it automatically targeted the optimal dancing weapon "in view" (that is, in LOS *or* in inventory), but only if you could trust it to choose the best weapon (judging from Beogh's allies' behavior that might be hard to make work).... If that can't be made to work well, I think the current interface is the least worst.

would this disarm them? or does TD clone the weapon to create a dancing copy?

*edit* nvm silly question sorry

I think it's worth considering. A lot of the danger of some uniques, e.g., Pikel, comes from their very dangerous weapons. If they don't/won't/can't pick the weapon back up, it would effectively neuter them, even if the weapon didn't kill them. Which would, of course, lead to endless "Mara-bread" strategies which would probably piss the blue-names right off.

Um what? That last sentence doesn't make any sense...

Also, other than Pikel, Sonja, and Psyche, what uniques are made dangerous *primarily* by their weapon? — I guess one could be very generous and count Rupert for half. And then Wiglaf and a few others I'm probably forgetting would be weakened if they fail to pick up another weapon. So this version of TD would be possibly useful against maybe 4 or 5 uniques that might possibly spawn in your game, one of which would only spawn almost certainly before you have both access and ability to cast TD. And even then only useful provided you have sufficient spell power. Alternately you could just carry around a few really good weapons and cast TD on them to get some good dancing weapon allies and kill those uniques easily, especially if you haste the weapons.

[Arrhythmia]

Also, other than Pikel, Sonja, and Psyche, what uniques are made dangerous *primarily* by their weapon? — I guess one could be very generous and count Rupert for half. And then Wiglaf and a few others I'm probably forgetting would be weakened if they fail to pick up another weapon. So this version of TD would be possibly useful against maybe 4 or 5 uniques, provided you have sufficient spell power. Alternately you could just carry around a few really good weapons and cast the current version of TD to get some good dancing weapon allies and kill them easily, especially if you haste the weapons.

I think you're missing my point altogether. I wasn't commenting on the strength of the current spell, the strength of the future spell, or where uniques draw their powers from. What I was saying is, for designing this hypothetical spell, we should pay attention to how enemies will behave about their weapons now that players can on-command disarm them, lest people train hexes right out the gate without finding t.dance just so they may have a slightly easier chance of fighting uniques who may or may not spawn.

[and into]

Well, if people want to play the game really really foolishly that's up to them I guess, that can't be much of a consideration when it comes to game design. People might also train up necromancy really high when the only spell they have is animate skeleton, just in case they get dispel undead.

Anyway here's a request, regardless of whether OP's suggestion or my proposal for automated TD is implemented:

When a dancing weapon ally created through Tukima's Dance takes "lethal" damage or its timer expires, have it return immediately to your inventory rather than drop on the ground. If you no longer have space for it (or if it would burden you), then you get a message and the weapon falls where it "died." I guess this would technically be a small buff but mainly it would be a *huge* interface improvement, it would be pretty great.

[crate]

Enslave is level 4 and is way more OP than this hypothetical version of tukima so....

[and into]

Enslave is level 4 and is way more OP than this hypothetical version of tukima so....

This hypothetical version of Tukima could still be used in all the ways Tukima is used now, just in addition you could cast it at dudes. At first I had read it the same way, as being made so it only targets enemies, but I'm pretty sure what he means is that after casting you can target yourself for the usual effect, or hit an enemy with it. However the latter is so situational IMO and would require annoying e(x)amine use to take advantage of anyway that I'm not sure it would be worth changing. Somewhat tangential but still on topic, I would like to see the interface of TD improved though because I like the idea of the spell but find it a bit annoying to really try to take advantage of the spell on most characters who have found it.

[wheals]

This hypothetical version of Tukima could still be used in all the ways Tukima is used now, just in addition you could cast it at dudes. At first I had read it the same way, as being made so it only targets enemies, but I'm pretty sure what he means is that after casting you can target yourself for the usual effect, or hit an enemy with it. However the latter is so situational IMO and would require annoying e(x)amine use to take advantage of anyway that I'm not sure it would be worth changing. Somewhat tangential but still on topic, I would like to see the interface of TD improved though because I like the idea of the spell but find it a bit annoying to really try to take advantage of the spell on most characters who have found it.

How about targetting all enemies? I can't think of any real disadvantages of doing it to them all, which would fix the interface issues, and by definition I can't imagine it being much more powerful than discord (especially if they can resist it with MR).

[duvessa]

Enslave is level 4 and is way more OP than this hypothetical version of tukima so....

This hypothetical version of Tukima could still be used in all the ways Tukima is used now, just in addition you could cast it at dudes. At first I had read it the same way, as being made so it only targets enemies, but I'm pretty sure what he means is that after casting you can target yourself for the usual effect, or hit an enemy with it.

I am certain that crate meant that too.

[Tiktacy]

I think the idea the mass tukima sounds much more enjoyable and much more thematic, especially if it worked on weapons on the floor.

[1010011010]

If you want TD to be better, make it effect a number of weapon in inventory, dependant on spell power. No more annoying wield to cast.