Dungeon Master
Posts: 332
Joined: Friday, 15th July 2011, 22:43
Revisions to boring or redundant monsters
A concern dpeg had in the previous thread was that a blanket discussion of all problematic monsters wouldn't lead anywhere, and because of that I want to facilitate this thread to focus on smaller groups of monsters at a time. We'll look through the list in minmay's thread, and I strongly suggest that anyone posting in this thread look there first. Additionally, there are pages on the dev wiki for existing monsters and new ones to consider or use as inspiration.
For now, let's talk about monsters in the early game. I'm grouping similar monsters or monsters with similar issues together, thus:
CURRENT DISCUSSION
Ooze
I should have included this enemy in the previous batch. I feel like oozes could be used to introduce more game concepts early on. They do as much damage as a giant gecko but move slowly, the extra HP isn't enough to make them threatening. What if they worked like slime creatures in reverse, splitting when hit? Each part gets half the HP of the original, and it doesn't split when in corridors (the player has enough of an advantage in corridors anyway). This doesn't make oozes into any serious threat and I don't think they need to be one, but it could be some good gameplay flavor.
Giant Slug, Agate Snail, Elephant Slug
The problem with slow melee monsters has been discussed before -- their stats are irrelevant if you can just walk away. Snails are somewhat alright, what with retreating into their shells, but the other two are rarely interesting except as corridor plugs. I liked a previous suggestion that these creatures might leave slime trails that slow the player/other creatures -- maybe they can be generated awake and can leave Leda's Liquifaction-style slime that sticks around for quite a while.
Hippogriff, Griffon
Mentally I tend to classify hippogriffs as easy meals. Griffons can be threatening if they show up after you've already been weakened in another fight -- but I think the big problem is that they're just more melee threats. I'm not sure what can be done, considering how the mythological counterparts to these monsters don't do anything besides fly around. Perhaps they can have some kind of screeching ability that induces fear? I'm grasping at straws.
Crocodile, Baby Alligator, Alligator
Someone mentioned in the previous thread that baby alligators exist because alligator packs would be too dangerous at the depths they tend to show up at. I like the burst of speed alligators get, and I think they're the best monsters out of this set, but I really have no ideas for the other two.
PRIOR DISCUSSIONS
Grey Rat, Green Rat, Porcupine
are small popcorn monsters that might be okay, but they come up occasionally as boring. I liked the idea of green rats all swarming into the same square from previous discussions, but I had a thought the other day -- what if they moved slightly faster (speed 11 or 12) so that they could surround players more frequently, and left a poison cloud on the space they die on for 1-2 turns? It wouldn't be an extreme threat but it could influence player positioning a lot.
I believe that porcupines already reflect a bit of damage, but I'm hazy on what would be appropriate for them.
post-discussion: I think most people who've weighed in on this discussion agree that porcupine damage reflection could be buffed (and perhaps their damage nerfed to compensate, but that's probably unnecessary). There is virtually no consensus on what to do to rats, but I do think it is important to consider how they show up with summon small mammal.
Giant Mite, Giant Centipede
are virtually never threats or even interesting. Adders show up around the same time as giant mites and are more dangerous. Centipedes have never seemed dangerous at all. They might be more memorable and dangerous if they came in packs?
post-discussion: These have a variety of suggestions without much consensus. I don't really think that multi-tile monsters are feasible despite suggesting it myself; I do like the idea of giant centipedes that split up into smaller ones when killed, but that is just my own feeling. I suggested sickness instead of poison for mites, and I still kind of favor this idea despite the fact that sickness isn't threatening, simply because it introduces a concept earlier in the game than Lair.
Hound, War Dog, Wolf
are basically the same thing. I do think that hounds are okay, and war dogs are somewhat okay as they are dangerous and come in packs, but otherwise they're just letters that run into you and that could be better.
post-discussion: Wolves and war dogs can either be merged, or war dogs can be kept as a unique monster that shows up with Grum. Hounds and wolves (and possibly war dogs) could be given some kind of tracking bonus. Possibly this could work with blood -- I like the idea of it but I think it may be hard to turn it into something clear and meaningful.
Giant Newt, Gecko, Iguana
I don't think these monsters need to be changed at all, but my instinct tells me that someone will bring up iguanas and so I might as well cut them off. 99% of the time an iguana isn't a threat, but they do just enough damage to harm careless/overconfident players, and so I think they're fine as boring monsters can be.
post-discussion: nothing important.
Please, let's hear your thoughts! After a while I will edit the OP and make a post later in the thread to switch to another set of monsters, and at some point I'll throw a page up on the dev wiki.