Snake Sneak
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Option to autocast buff spells.
Option to automatically recast such spells when no enemies are around would be very cool
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
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minmay wrote:Core Xii came up with an interesting idea for this a while ago: buff spells last as long as you want them to, but reduce your maximum MP by their cost while active.
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tazoz wrote:If a person has the patience to refresh the spells constantly he deserves the extra survivability the spells gives
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KoboldLord wrote:Oh, you meant that the player would not have the option of casting them and letting them time out, as normal? That wasn't clear from the link, so I didn't know about that wrinkle in the idea.
Okay, in that case, how do you train the relevant spell skills? If activating a charm is an irrevocable trade of mp-for-buff, how do you train the skill?
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FilthyApe wrote:There actually would be some downsides to the suggested decrease in mana pool method. Say you are a pure caster buffing up before taking on something really hard, like a pan/hell lord. You'll probably be channeling/crystal balling your mana back up to max before the fight. Somebody like cerebov does take more than a couple spells to kill, after all. Currently, you can start the fight buffed up and at your maximum 50 mana. Under the proposed buff scheme, you would be starting the fight at 50 - (mana for shedload of buffs), putting you at a distinct disadvantage.
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galehar wrote:The plan is to cast permanent buff with Z (or shift-click) and, normal casting with z. It won't be so useful for animal forms because there is also a plan to limit them more (no wand and no evaporate). Still good for statue form and necromutation. See the wiki for details.
Extension has been removed recently because it's uninteresting and abusable.
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MrMisterMonkey wrote:on mitigating annoyance, spells designed purely to get around bad interface are kind of bad.
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KoboldLord wrote:Also importantly, you could permanently re-cast Extension with a laundry list of buffs up, Selective Amnesia all the buffs, and get permanent and free flight, swiftness, rElec, rPois, deflect missiles, stoneskin, and so on without spending either spell slots or equipment slots on these effects. You just had to spam Extension a lot, but that was radically cheaper mp-wise than keeping the buffs themselves up.
smock wrote:Keeping buffs up for all players seems to have downsides. A god of buffs who greatly extends the duration of buffs effects (and perhaps negative status effects) might work.
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Curio wrote:"I'd like to see this just as an additional perk of Sif Muna. Would make Sif a slightly more viable option vs. Vehumet."
I agree. Amnesia ability is still not very viable. Scrolls are abundant and you want to use them instead of piety-draining ability
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minmay wrote:Sif Muna is already an extremely powerful god. Channeling is a reliable source of MP restoration, miscast protection lets you get away with casting high-level spells at poor success rates, and you have a much better chance of getting rare spells like Ozocubu's Refrigeration and Airstrike that no other god will give you. And the former two are already unique abilities unobtainable otherwise; Kikubaaqudgha only provides miscast protection for necromancy, and other sources of channeling are far inferior to Sif Muna's invocation.
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KoboldLord wrote:minmay wrote:Sif Muna is already an extremely powerful god. Channeling is a reliable source of MP restoration, miscast protection lets you get away with casting high-level spells at poor success rates, and you have a much better chance of getting rare spells like Ozocubu's Refrigeration and Airstrike that no other god will give you. And the former two are already unique abilities unobtainable otherwise; Kikubaaqudgha only provides miscast protection for necromancy, and other sources of channeling are far inferior to Sif Muna's invocation.
I agree with this statement, and I'd also like to point out that Sif Muna improves the odds of getting early access to staple spells such as Blink and Repel Missiles for backgrounds that don't start with them. Getting early access to otherwise non-guaranteed spells is extremely powerful and, depending on your background's starting book, can be a far greater influence on the success of your game than all the late-game perks you could possibly put together.
None of the three caster deities are in any need of a buff.
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mumra wrote:So you're saying that Sif is basically there for non-Wizard backgrounds who want early access to "Book of Minor Magic".
mumra wrote:A book which in pretty much every game where I've got as far as D:10, I've found all those spells amongst other books either in shops or just lying on the floor.
mumra wrote:And pretty much always *before* I get to 6* piety with Sif.
mumra wrote:Channelling is ok. But it's only a 1* piety ability so it can't be that good? What kind of God plays their hand right from the get-go?
mumra wrote:On miscast protection; usually by the time I'm at 6* piety it's not much of a worry. And a miscast is dangerous whether effects happen or not because you lose a turn. In a sticky situation I'm not going to risk it. Vehumet gives a bonus to your casting abilities for offensive spells, actually reducing the chance of a miscast; still seems like a clear winner.
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KoboldLord wrote:mumra wrote:So you're saying that Sif is basically there for non-Wizard backgrounds who want early access to "Book of Minor Magic".
Blink and Repel Missiles were two examples, not the whole list. I'm not going to list all the good low-level spells; it should be obvious enough to state that if you increase the number of early spellbooks you end up with more early spells that are useful.mumra wrote:A book which in pretty much every game where I've got as far as D:10, I've found all those spells amongst other books either in shops or just lying on the floor.
If this is remotely close to being accurate, you are startlingly lucky. More likely you're over-generalizing from a small sample set.
KoboldLord wrote:mumra wrote:And pretty much always *before* I get to 6* piety with Sif.
I would expect you to typically get close to maximum piety with Sif Muna before entering Lair, if you're playing a dedicated caster. Sometimes I see zero spellbooks generated before Lair, although it is more typical to generate some that are merely too high-level to be useful.
KoboldLord wrote:mumra wrote:Channelling is ok. But it's only a 1* piety ability so it can't be that good? What kind of God plays their hand right from the get-go?
You also need to invest in invocations skill to get full effect out of that ability. A low-piety ability can often still be valuable; the early access means you won't lose it if you fall short on piety.
KoboldLord wrote:mumra wrote:On miscast protection; usually by the time I'm at 6* piety it's not much of a worry. And a miscast is dangerous whether effects happen or not because you lose a turn. In a sticky situation I'm not going to risk it. Vehumet gives a bonus to your casting abilities for offensive spells, actually reducing the chance of a miscast; still seems like a clear winner.
Miscast effects include banishment to the Abyss or smacking you with multiple bad mutations. The worst effects are rare, but they are truly horrible when they come up.
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minmay wrote:smock wrote:The levitation spell would have to go or be changed.
So would Fire Brand, Freezing Aura, Lethal Infusion, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, Tukima's Vorpal Blade, Ozocubu's Armour, Poison Weapon, Condensation Shield, Excruciating Wounds, Silence, Haste, Invisibility, Warp Weapon, and Death's Door.
Explanation: Weapon branding spells are used mostly because they can be situationally swapped. Ozocubu's Armour and Condensation Shield disappear when hit by fire attacks or casting fire magic. Haste and Invisibility give magic contamination.
You could make a bunch of exceptions for these spells, but it would leave people with only a few permanent buffs, which isn't much of an improvement.
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minmay wrote: ... it would leave people with only a few permanent buffs, which isn't much of an improvement.
smock wrote: I don't know if Death's Door should be included in that list, but I haven't used it in a long time.
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smock wrote:After taking a breather....
Why not just have a buff active once it's memorized? To deactivate it you have to forget the spell. Max MP is reduced (perhaps by 2/3 or 1/2) of the spell's level.
If implemented, the levels of some spells would probably have to change. Also, spell hunger wouldn't be a cost and the spells couldn't be used for training or dancing. The levitation spell would have to go or be changed. I don't see any of this as a problem.
It's true that you don't always want buffs on. But I don't see why that's a problem. If you don't want a buff on, don't memorize it.
It would have other effects on the game. This would make Sif's forget spell power much more attractive. It would also give us a reason to use all the extra scrolls of amnesia laying around. I would be really nice to never have to cast buffs. Overpowered buffs would no longer so overpowered, as they have a large cost to max MP.
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galehar wrote:Great idea. Let me put my wiz and +int items, quaff brilliance and learn deflect missiles and necromutation. Now, I can put my CPM, cast blade hands and go to Zot. For a proposal that take into account hunger and spell success, check this page that marvinPA already linked to above.
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