Question on Haste

[tasonir]

If you remove haste spell you need to make very large changes to large portions of the game to compensate and I am not sure that you actually end up with a better game in the end.

I regularly do extended while slowed, much less normal speed. I don't really see why extensive changes would be required.

I find haste to be uninteresting. You just do what you did before haste, but magically get to do more of it while monsters do less. It's extremely powerful and extremely dull and apparently if you don't use it you're a gigantic moron.

[ebarrett]

If you remove haste spell you need to make very large changes to large portions of the game to compensate and I am not sure that you actually end up with a better game in the end.

I regularly do extended while slowed, much less normal speed.

You were also a player with a very substantial splat rate last time I checked, and certainly being slow plays a part in dying more than usual in late game.

[Eji1700]

Personally I think haste is one of the worst parts of crawl. As it stands the tutorial should just mention it as a must get spell/school for most players, and that's foolish.

Splitting haste brainstorming-
Why not just make more haste spells with downsides?

Fire/something lvl6: Current haste buff+fire dmg over time to you(including burning scrolls and what not).
Charms lvl 6-8: mass haste. Hastes all allies. Will not haste self.
Poison/something lvl7- Current haste while slowly stacking poison debuffs over time. Some unresistable some not so rpoison doesn't completely mitigate the downside.
Charms/air- current haste? Increase the level and - lightning?
Necro/something- causes rot/torment every X turns.
etc.

These are just quick off the top of my head examples, but the idea is that if you have more sources of haste there's at least more too it than "Learn charms". Early game you might hit a ton of fire resist and have the levels for it, or obviously if you've got allies you'd want to get mass haste or whatever. Extended isn't affected that much because you're basically expected to find these sorts of resists by then, so it's mostly just picking whatever one's you have/work best with your current skill set.

[varsovie]

As it stands the tutorial should just mention it as a must get spell/school for most players, and that's foolish.

Players who don't immediately come to the conclusion on their own that a 50% speed increase is a good thing don't need to be told about it, because they are clearly too stupid to operate a computer, a prerequisite to playing Crawl.

I must disagree, the ability the operate a "kind" of computer isn't at all related to the knowledge and interpretation of the rules of a particular game. Please, stay with rationals arguments, I particularly hate sophisms.

[rebthor]

It's Goddamn tedious to haste more than about two allies.

I'm still groggy, so this idea is probably crap, but: what if haste also hasted d(n) enemies (where n is the number of visible enemies) in LOS? It'd still be useful to cast before something dangerous, but you'd need to deal with LOS issues or risk hasting your threats. If you wanna make it even a little less good, partially weight the choice by XP value.

Why not just go out of LOS, caste haste and then have the same situation we currently have?

Anyhow, lots of dangerous enemies have haste already, like Cerebov and Lichs. Will they haste you when they cast their own haste?

[njvack]

Why not just go out of LOS, caste haste and then have the same situation we currently have?

Anyhow, lots of dangerous enemies have haste already, like Cerebov and Lichs. Will they haste you when they cast their own haste?

Well, I did say it was probably a crap idea But: running out of LoS of isn't always convenient, especially if you aren't hasted...

And no, monster haste would never haste you.

[graffen69]

random suggestion; make a bigger separation between Haste/Swiftness i.e Haste dont affect run speed vs. swiftness that does, introduce Potion of Swiftness and raise level on swiftness spell

[Jeremiah]

So the currently "broken" effects that need to be nerfed or removed are haste and teleport control.

Why not make them mutually exclusive: As long as you are hasted you cannot control teleports (or perhaps cannot teleport at all) and as long as you have teleport control active you cannot be hasted by any source.

[crate]

imo swiftness is actually more powerful for its investment than haste spell is.

I think teleport control is slated to be removed entirely at some point.

[Lasty]

Charms are just really good. Perhaps it would make sense to add some contamination whenever any charm is cast, so that stacking charms (especially powerful ones) is harder, and charms are less spamable.