Brainstorming new brands/egos

[roctavian]

I forget which thread someone mentioned it in, but the game could definitely handle some more brand/ego diversification.

One thing I thought of was something like "magic dampening" as an armor ego, which would protect against "Glow" status somewhat: it would "absorb" negative glow effects, but each time it would also bestow suppression upon one piece of worn equipment for a number of turns. Making it an armor ego would prevent players from switching it on and off too quickly -- though I think there's still potential for abuse in terms of switching other equipment on and off to get around the suppression.

Another thought was heavy leaden boots which would bypass a lot of trap damage, but at the same time would make the player noisy or perhaps even slower. This is actually a bad idea, but perhaps it will help others come up with non-crap ideas.

[XuaXua]

I'd like to see a basic curse do more than just force you to use the item and maybe give you a non positive to-hit/to-damage.
Maybe a -AC, -EV, +hunger or -%MP or -%HP penalty as well. Have the - to-hit / damage associated with the curse applique, not with the weapon. A curse of (-4/-4) could turn a +2/+3 sword into a -2/-1 sword, etc.

[nicolae]

I forget which thread someone mentioned it in, but the game could definitely handle some more brand/ego diversification.

One thing I thought of was something like "magic dampening" as an armor ego, which would protect against "Glow" status somewhat: it would "absorb" negative glow effects, but each time it would also bestow suppression upon one piece of worn equipment for a number of turns. Making it an armor ego would prevent players from switching it on and off too quickly -- though I think there's still potential for abuse in terms of switching other equipment on and off to get around the suppression.

Is "Glow" a common enough problem to get a whole brand to itself? Perhaps "magic dampening" could include some MR, along with dampening Glow, but in return it reduces your success rate on spellcasting and lowers your MP like when wielding anti-magic.

Edit: I have a list of brand ideas, because I have been bitten by the "think about Crawl crap all day long" bug. Here are the ones I think are least terrible.

Phasing: Weapon brand. Chance to ignore some of a target's AC, though with a penalty to hit. Chance to ignore AC, and percentage of AC ignored, increases with Translocations skill. (I saw a similar proposal on the devwiki, great minds think alike apparently?)
Abjuration: Weapon brand. Chance to abjure summoned monsters on a successful hit. Has an additional anti-magic effect against summoners and summoning spells.
Bravado: Weapon brand. Does more damage when more hostile and dangerous monsters are adjacent to you. Lowers your stealth.
Ricocheting: Missile brand. Bounces off of walls like lightning. May bounce up to three times.
Transposition: Missile brand. Similar to dispersal brand; on a hit, you and the target are blinked to each other's position.

[Sporkman]

Note that these ideas are nowhere near final, but the ones in bold I feel could be easily balanced.

Ammo Exclusive:

• Broadhead Arrows/Bolts: Do extra damage, but that damage is effected twice as much by AC (and possibly GDR).
• Armor-penetrating Bolts/Javelins: Flat-out ignores a certain amount of AC and/or GDR. Slimes would have a higher chance of the projectile flying right through them.
• Lightray Arrows: These arrows hit near-instantly, reducing the chance to dodge, but do less damage.
• Scatter Bolt: Fires a growing fan of bolts. Each time the bolts split, they have their total damage split between them; thus, close-in attacks do more damage to a single target, but long-range attacks can hit groups. (In other words, it's a shotgun.)
• Spread Bolts/Arrows: Does half the damage per projectile, but fires out two extra projectiles offset by (possibly less than) 45 degrees left and right. Think Contra-style spread shot.
• Lightning Arrows: Turn into a bolt of lightning when fired! Rare, but nasty. Might make reference to Japanese mythology (perhaps blessed by Raijin/Raiden/Narukami?).

Armor:

• Boots of Sprinting: When invoked, act as slightly-faster boots of running that can boost the player past the player-speed cutoff, but prevent all attacking during that time and for one (subjective) turn afterward. Staying still or being hit cancels the effect. Basically a 'run like hell' button.
• Bandoleer armor: 'This armor is festooned with enchanted pouches, belts, and clips.' Increases carrying capacity. Why? Not only are the pouches magical, but they let you distribute the load better.

[roctavian]

Another alternate to the "magic dampening" concept is something that simply absorbs miscast effects (be they from miscast, zot trap, glow, whatever) and bestows temporary -Cast or saps MP at the same time.

I would really, really love to see ricocheting sling bullets.
This is an existing brand, but I'd also love to see exploding arrows. Fire/ice are such boring ammo brands, and mostly just make ranged weapons behave like conjurations anyhow.

How about gloves of clinging, that allow the player to cling to walls across small gaps like spiderform does? Probably would want to prevent players from doing this while wielding two-handed weapons, and penalize EV.

Edit: I immediately thought of "Lightray arrows" as "Hitscan arrows" in my mind.

[Deimos]

I was thinking of a simple "X of Blinding" brand that would reduce the to-hit of the monster struck by it.

[Tiber]

Warding (shield brand): Not my idea, but this would be a great fit.
Attraction (shield brand): Attracts projectiles to it, increasing the chance of blocking them
Absorption (shield brand): When blocking magic attacks, you have a chance to gain mana.
Scourge (weapon brand): does extra damage to holy creatures.
Accuracy (glove brand): Gives an accuracy bonus like slaying.
Honing (arrow brand): Seeks out its target and avoids all others. Acts as a free portal projectile, and never misses.

[nicolae]

How about gloves of clinging, that allow the player to cling to walls across small gaps like spiderform does? Probably would want to prevent players from doing this while wielding two-handed weapons, and penalize EV.

I always figured clinging was more of a boot ego than a glove ego. It might be desirable to just leave clinging for Spider Form, though.

Bracers of defense: Gloves with heavy plates across the forearms that can be used for blocking. +5 SH in exchange for some mild penalties. (Is this already a thing? I feel like this is already a thing.)

[Sporkman]

Honing (arrow brand): Seeks out its target and avoids all others. Acts as a free portal projectile, and never misses.

I had a similar idea, though it was more 'guided arrow' than 'portal projectile'. Basically gave anything in the way a REALLY high chance to dodge, and the target a much lower one.

Bracers of defense: Gloves with heavy plates across the forearms that can be used for blocking. +5 SH in exchange for some mild penalties. (Is this already a thing? I feel like this is already a thing.)

I don't think it's a thing. It'd actually be pretty interesting for an SH build.

Shield of Repulsion: basically gives a constant Repel Missiles effect. (Is Deflect Missiles too strong to give as a brand?)

[KoboldLord]

Note to those considering ammo brands: Keep in mind that inventory clutter is a horrendous blight on the archer playing style. A brand that is only marginally better than vanilla ammo and that is useful only in very limited circumstances is unlikely to be all that much better than the spare inventory slot, since otherwise you could have spent the same weight on a bigger stack of vanilla ammo. Fire and cold ammo that actually exists in-game probably wouldn't make the cutoff if they hadn't been grandfathered in.

[Tiber]

True, but I think that has more to do with how fire/frost works. I don't think I'll ever get why an arrow on fire could ever do less damage than a normal arrow, regardless of resistances. Yes, I get the whole beam thing, I just think it's dumb, and inconsistent with melee brands.

[nicolae]

With that in mind, I propose the molotov brand, which splashes the target with sticky flame. You'd make room in your inventory for that.

[varsovie]

I'd like to see a basic curse do more than just force you to use the item and maybe give you a non positive to-hit/to-damage.
Maybe a -AC, -EV, +hunger or -%MP or -%HP penalty as well. Have the - to-hit / damage associated with the curse applique, not with the weapon. A curse of (-4/-4) could turn a +2/+3 sword into a -2/-1 sword, etc.

For curses, we already have a thread.

[MaXimillion]

Adding a bunch more missile brands without adding quivers or some other form of container or secondary inventory would make inventory management as much or more of a pain for archers than it was before the missile enchantment removal.

[roctavian]

What about armor ego types that could be evoked to turn you into different forms? Statue, dragon, and lich forms are all a bit overpowered; ice form would be a little too much like wearing a ring of ice. But I think it would be awesome if you put on a cloak and whoops! It was a cursed cloak of the bat, and now you're stuck in bat form for a little while. Or stuck in spider form. Perhaps these need more of a drawback, transforming you randomly at other times a la rings of teleportation.

How about "Dancing" as a melee brand, that can be evoked to animate the weapon temporarily? Scale duration/success/hostility/any or all of the above with evocations skill?

[galehar]

Adding a bunch more missile brands without adding quivers or some other form of container or secondary inventory would make inventory management as much or more of a pain for archers than it was before the missile enchantment removal.

A bunch no, but there's room for a couple. Especially arrows which will be lacking when frost/flame will be removed. We're removing overlap between launcher and ammo brands and allow them to stack. Mostly, launchers will have the magical brands and ammo the material brands. Note "mostly". We're keeping dispersal as an ammo brand for example.

I like broadhead arrows, more damage but AC is more effective against it sounds good. They could also have a chance to cause bleeding. I like exploding arrows too, it makes a good counterpart to bolts of penetration.

[mumra]

Triple Shot - missile/arrow brand - immediately after firing splits into 3 projectiles in a shotgun-style firing pattern. Against a single target it's most effective at close range where all 3 projectiles will hit
Nail Bomb - missile brand - when it hits it explodes, sending a random number of additional weaker projectiles in random directions with a slightly more limited range (occasionally one might hit you)
Knockback - missile brand - chance to push target back a square
Pinning - arrow brand - chance to pin target to a wall for some turns
Concussion - launcher or missile brand - chance to knock target out for some turns

[Konebred]

Damn, everyone wants their archers to be Hawkeye.

[BlackSheep]

How about "Dancing" as a melee brand, that can be evoked to animate the weapon temporarily? Scale duration/success/hostility/any or all of the above with evocations skill?

A thousand times this. Even if it's just an unrandart.

[Sporkman]

Hmmm... one problem I'm seeing with 'shotgun' brands is how to handle targeting. We don't yet have any good way of targeting a cone effect.

[rchandra]

Hmmm... one problem I'm seeing with 'shotgun' brands is how to handle targeting. We don't yet have any good way of targeting a cone effect.

Steal it from DoomRL: aim at a point, damage in a cone. Highlight the cone area to keep crawl's friendliness.

[BlackSheep]

It would be work to implement, but it would open up possibilities beyond an ammo brand.

[Galefury]

Some of those possibilities have already been discussed, for example cone targeting for bolt of magma has been proposed long ago. If it was easy to implement it would probably have been done long ago, but there were always more pressing issues. Would be nice to have, though.

[Sporkman]

It would be work to implement, but it would open up possibilities beyond an ammo brand.

I was thinking all it'd need would be three 'tracers' - one center tracer which shows the direction of the primary projectile, and two tracers at angles from it (which could adjust depending on the attack's cone of effect).

This could even create a form of 'variable cone' spell - the closer you target to yourself, the wider the cone is, while targeting further away would create a narrow cone.

Tsunami: Ranged weapon brand (or perhaps unrand?). For every space the projectile travels, it spits out weaker projectiles at 45 degree angles (left and right) from itself, creating a 'wave' of projectiles. Could also be the effect of a spell.

[galehar]

I was thinking all it'd need would be three 'tracers'

I guess you've never seen the targetting code

[XuaXua]

Phasing: Weapon brand. Chance to ignore some of a target's AC, though with a penalty to hit. Chance to ignore AC, and percentage of AC ignored, increases with Translocations skill. (I saw a similar proposal on the devwiki, great minds think alike apparently?)

IMHO, Distortion covers that sort of concept. Seems too vague (pun intended).

Abjuration: Weapon brand. Chance to abjure summoned monsters on a successful hit. Has an additional anti-magic effect against summoners and summoning spells.

I absolutely LOVE this, but NOT as a general weapon brand. It is something that, instead, should be applied immediately to all Staves of Summoning.

Bravado: Weapon brand. Does more damage when more hostile and dangerous monsters are adjacent to you. Lowers your stealth.

Too arbitrary and very specific, IMHO. Not useful enough as its very situational.

I'd like to see a basic curse do more than just force you to use the item and maybe give you a non positive to-hit/to-damage.
Maybe a -AC, -EV, +hunger or -%MP or -%HP penalty as well. Have the - to-hit / damage associated with the curse applique, not with the weapon. A curse of (-4/-4) could turn a +2/+3 sword into a -2/-1 sword, etc.

For curses, we already have a thread.

Well, shit.

[XuaXua]

Corrosive ammo?

[Sporkman]

Corrosive ammo?

The question in that case is whether or not the devs want us to have access to acid damage.

[BlackSheep]

Abjuration: Weapon brand. Chance to abjure summoned monsters on a successful hit. Has an additional anti-magic effect against summoners and summoning spells.

I absolutely LOVE this, but NOT as a general weapon brand. It is something that, instead, should be applied immediately to all Staves of Summoning.

You're aware that this is already how staves of summoning work, right?

[KoboldLord]

Corrosive ammo?

The question in that case is whether or not the devs want us to have access to acid damage.

The perk of acid damage is that very few things resist it, compared to other elemental effects. However, even fewer things resist the damage of a thin shaft of metal and wood entering their braincase. Corrosive ammo would basically be a damage bonus that applies to everything, in other words basically the same as steel ammo.

Well, unless you specifically wanted ammo that would reduce the defensive value of the crystal plate armour you were going to loot off that orc.

[XuaXua]

Abjuration: Weapon brand. Chance to abjure summoned monsters on a successful hit. Has an additional anti-magic effect against summoners and summoning spells.

I absolutely LOVE this, but NOT as a general weapon brand. It is something that, instead, should be applied immediately to all Staves of Summoning.

You're aware that this is already how staves of summoning work, right?

Apparently no.

[XuaXua]

Corrosive ammo?

The question in that case is whether or not the devs want us to have access to acid damage.

The perk of acid damage is that very few things resist it, compared to other elemental effects. However, even fewer things resist the damage of a thin shaft of metal and wood entering their braincase. Corrosive ammo would basically be a damage bonus that applies to everything, in other words basically the same as steel ammo.

Well, unless you specifically wanted ammo that would reduce the defensive value of the crystal plate armour you were going to loot off that orc.

I don't know how it'd work, possibly ignore some AC or SH? I guess that's penetrating brand...

[pubby]

I don't know how it'd work, possibly ignore some AC or SH? I guess that's penetrating brand...

AFAIK penetration doesn't ignore AC or SH. It should really be renamed.


I feel like there needs to be an ammo material that slimes won't eat. Right now it is impossible to kill TRJ with ranged unless you have 300 dispersal arrows and portal projectile. I had a character who killed Cerebov and Antaeus easily but couldn't even scratch TRJ because I ran out of dispersal and I didn't have PP, not to mention TRJ regens now!

Portal projectile really needs to be in more books.


One thing that would make ranged be much more accessible is to have more gods gift ammo, perhaps of their own special brand. Zin could gift Silver ammo, Yred could gift Bone ammo, Fedhas could gift organic, etc. These wouldn't be found on the floor normally.


The only melee brand I can think of is a "Gravity" brand which pulls flying enemies downwards and reduces their EV. It would also do bonus damage to insubstantial monsters.

[pratamawirya]

not to mention TRJ regens now!

dafuq??

[KoboldLord]

I feel like there needs to be an ammo material that slimes won't eat. Right now it is impossible to kill TRJ with ranged unless you have 300 dispersal arrows and portal projectile. I had a character who killed Cerebov and Antaeus easily but couldn't even scratch TRJ because I ran out of dispersal and I didn't have PP, not to mention TRJ regens now!

Yeah, I was caught by surprise when I last tried to scroll of torment-cheese The Royal Jelly, but after a moment's thought I decided that the change was long overdue. No healing is really too crippling for what is allegedly one of the post-endgame bosses. If the Royal Jelly showed up in mid-Vaults or Elf or something, it would be an okay gimmick, but not for the boss of one of the last places you visit in the whole game.

With regards to your problem defeating The Royal Jelly with a ranged character, perhaps you could try hitting it with a stick? It's okay to have one notable monster in the whole game that doesn't completely roll over just because you're hammering the tab button with a longbow of holy wrath. If nothing else, you can convert and just take the wrath of your previous deity.

[varsovie]

For the "shotgun" brand, instead of a cone, simply report the aim point at the edge of LOS-1 (so 7 tile away from @) and randomly aim the secondary projectile(s) around this point.

[Pleont]

●Heavy Armour
Mutation Resistance: While a modest mage can spam summons to block line of sight while they use spells like airstrike, or fling fire/ice storms to destroy mutation-inducing monsters, even with mutation-resistance and anti-magic, a heavy armour melee fighter is nearly guaranteed to receive a few bad mutations. I can only imagine how bad this would be if such a player happens to be unfortunate enough to not find an amulet of mutation resistance. So, it would be nice if heavy armour characters have an extra chance of finding armour that protects against it. This will also lead to interesting possible choices such as splint mail of mutation resistance over gold dragon armour or crystal place mail for trips to Zot/Slime/Abyss/Pandemonium.

Hex Reflection: If a player successfully resists a hex-like effect (confusion, paralysis, banishment, slow, etc.) from a spell or wand, then the hex-like effect is reflected toward its caster at the same strength. Particularly useful against packs of those yellow eyes that like to spam confusion. Races that generally use heavy armour aren't typically known for their high magical resistance, so I don't think this shouldn't be a particularly strong brand without rings of magical resistance.

●Boots/Barding
Safety: Like boots of levitation, these have an ability to turn on or off their safety effect. While activated, if a player steps on an undetected trap, the boots will automatically blink the player away from it. The same goes if the player happens to fall into deep water or lava if a land tile is within viewable distance (though the player will still take damage from the brief dunking). Control teleport has no effect, but stasis and -tele do. These are useful if a player wants to avoid pitfall, teleport, or Zot traps, but still dangerous in that the blinking effect might make matters worse if the player is somewhere like Tomb (step on a trap, then blink into the middle of a pack of mummy priests and greater mummies). If the player fails to find poison resistance or clarity, these can be useful to help avoid drowning in the swamp branch.

●Hammers/Clubs
Destruction: If a monster is destroyed by a weapon with this brand, they are flung away from the wielder and explode into meaty chunks while slightly damaging anything nearby the explosion. The weight of the monster determines the distance they travel. The idea of a hammer that blows things up appeals to me as someone who loves wands of disintegration, inner flame, and orb of destruction for their explosive goodness. Though, players fighting monsters in a packed corridor would have problems since the monster will explode in the players face, so maybe the player should be immune to the explosion damage? Also, such weapons would be useful for Ash followers in that they have an unorthodox method of collecting meat chunks.

[mumra]

It would be work to implement, but it would open up possibilities beyond an ammo brand.

Yeah, there are a bunch of proposals for shotgun spells. I particularly like "reverse alchemy" which uses gold as ammo.

I like all the different proposals here for how the targetting could work, and in fact this could be a way that different shotgun spells / ammos could differentiate. A spell with a fixed cone, an ammo with random tracers, a spell with an ability to control the cone's by focus by aiming closer or nearer, etc.

[mumra]

scroll of torment-cheese

Does this summon a sentient cheese that always runs away and won't let you eat it?

[XuaXua]

I feel like there needs to be an ammo material that slimes won't eat.

Stones and Large Rocks.

And this answer from the guy who forgot abjuration is an aspect of the summoning staves.

n.b.: Stone arrows/bolts/spears/javelins can have added weight and potentially added fragility, but would survive acidic attacks.