Ins't trishula a bit too powerful?

[nago]

I've just made a comparison between a trishula and holy bardiche, because of a discussion in YASD forum. I've used DCSS weapons' sheet, so I base my considerations on the results it provides - if they're wrong all my idea could be too. I've set polearm and fighting to 27, no slaying bonus.

Anyway, I've just discovered that a trishula has a lower attack delay than other polearms, and that generally does a damage/turn comparable to a holy bardiche. Actually, if we consider a Fiend with 15/6 ac/ev the damage/turn for the former is 39,1 and for the latter is 41,6 - not really a important difference, I believe.
The result start do differ a bit more if we consider an enemy like an ancient lich, who has a formidable 20/10: the damage are 30,0 in opposition of 32,9.
Considering some unique hells'/pan's lord, the bardiche outshines the trishula: for example against cerebov (30/8) the bardiche does 23.9 dmg/turn against 18.8 of the trishula.

In conclusion, only against very few enemies, unique (the lords with high ac are cerebov, antaeus, asmodeus and dispater) or not, a holy bardiche is significantly better than trishula; in all other cases, the damage output seems to be quite comparable.
Yes, I know that shield in extended isn't really useful, but now I've made this comparison, I don't know if the little general bigger dps of bardiche is worthy to lose it. And although unique lords are nasty, lower damage can be easily offset by an extra angel to help.

What I'd like to have is little buff to bardiche, or a little nerf to trishula. I'm not to eager for the first solution (bardiche is the weakest of 2 handed weapons, but it has reaching, which is a huge bonus); maybe giving normal attack delay to the trishula could be a good solution, what do you think?

[BlackSheep]

It's a one-handed weapon. It has the same delay as a vanilla trident and a demon trident. And you generally can't get one without maxing out TSO piety and sacrificing a demon trident.

At min. delay, a bardiche is only .1 turns slower and has 6 more base damage. In what way is it the "weakest of 2 handed weapons"?

[mageykun]

If you bother to take reaching into account, the bardiche is hardly the weakest 2hander.

[nago]

Both executioner's axe and triple sword have higher base damage - 20 the former, 19 the sword, upgraded to 20 if blessed, while the bardiche has 18.
This is a quite huge difference if we consider only raw damage, especially against high ac enemies, at least according the results provided by sheet. But, I've said before, reaching is a huge bonus, so overall bardiche are well balanced with the two other weapons - the main issue I'm talking about is about trishula and bardiche

[crate]

So a weapon that is supposed to be really good ... is really good. I'm not sure how this is a problem. As far as I know it is completely impossible to get a trishula outside of blessing a demon trident yourself (A's don't come with them), so if you want one you must worship TSO at least for some time. And the more-common bardiche does indeed still deal more damage, as you would expect, and can have a brand other than just holy wrath. Comparing a sacred scourge to a great mace ends up with similar results to comparing a trishula to a bardiche, for the record.

[XuaXua]

So a weapon that is supposed to be really good ... is really good. I'm not sure how this is a problem. As far as I know it is completely impossible to get a trishula outside of blessing a demon trident yourself (A's don't come with them)

I thought I've found trishulas carried by those random early D angels who show up in various vaults. Might have been a holy scourge.

[cerebovssquire]

Angels spawn randomly with a whip of holy wrath or a holy scourge. Glowing angels have more weapons available, but these don't include trishulas.

[CommanderC]

nago, use the fsim instead of the spreadsheet:

  Code:

 l - a +7,+7 trishula (weapon)
 The Ice Fiend gestures at you.
_The bolt of cold misses you.
            AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvEffDam
 Attacking:     12,8 |     60 |      88% |  11,3 |    0,6 |     18,9
 Defending:     10,3 |     40 |      45% |   4,7 |    1,0 |      4,7
 It softly glows with a divine radiance!
_o - a +7,+7 bardiche of holy wrath (weapon)
            AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvEffDam
 Attacking:     28,4 |    160 |      87% |  24,8 |    0,7 |     35,5
 Defending:     10,5 |     41 |      45% |   4,8 |    1,0 |      4,8



[crate]

CommanderC, your trishula appears to not be holy-branded.

Also as far as I can see if you have enough shields skill a one-handed trishula is the same as a two-handed trishula.

edit: if you have high UC this might not be true, you might get an offhand punch with a two-handed trishula? I am not sure.

[CommanderC]

Thanks, crate!

Wearing a buckler (Shield > 5)

  Code:

 p - a +7,+7 Blessed Trishula (weapon)
_The Ice Fiend completely misses you. The Ice Fiend barely misses you.
            AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvEffDam
 Attacking:     19,7 |    110 |      95% |  18,8 |    0,6 |     31,3
 Defending:     10,6 |     44 |      44% |   4,8 |    1,0 |      4,8