Vaults Vanquisher
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Heroism and the skill cap...
What do you think? Is this a fair point, or am I just crazy + stupid for thinking Heroism needs retooling?
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
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KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room
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minmay wrote:IMO the best change to Heroism would be to let it give the Fighting HP bonus and to make it passive. Its cost means you use it in every relevant fight, and its nature is such that you activate it before these fights instead of during, so the turn cost doesn't mean much. That sounds like the sort of ability that should be made passive to me.
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ebarrett wrote:I think faster piety decay would be more adequate than lesser piety gain.
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pratamawirya wrote:Or make Heroism power up skills more with more piety.
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some12fat2move wrote:Well, one of the tradeoffs of Heroism is supposed to be about whether you train skills past 22...and if so, which ones and how far... If it was passive, you wouldn't have to think about that.
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njvack wrote:It'd also be reasonable if Hero didn't boost Stealth and T&D.
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cerebovssquire wrote:some12fat2move wrote:Well, one of the tradeoffs of Heroism is supposed to be about whether you train skills past 22...and if so, which ones and how far... If it was passive, you wouldn't have to think about that.
Let's say that once you realise what Heroism does, you don't really have to think much about it afterwards because it's rather obvious what the optimal strategy is (all except Fighting to 22 is enough). So there isn't that much of a decision involved.
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some12fat2move wrote:Okay, and use your executioner's axe at .9 delay instead of .7? I suppose you do use Heroism for all the important battles, but the more you train specifically for Heroism, the more threatening battles without Heroism become, and the more you have to use Heroism and risk burning up your piety (also, I believe you get less gifts the more piety you spend, not positive about it though). Granted most weapons hit their minimum delay long before 22 so this is a kind of wacky example, I'm just pointing out that a few tradeoffs do exist with "active" Heroism that would not exist with passive Heroism.
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KoboldLord wrote:Heroism has the lowest non-zero piety cost in the game.
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I wonder if that's a good thing. It's a great ability, why is it so cheap?
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galehar wrote:I wonder if that's a good thing. It's a great ability, why is it so cheap?
danharaj wrote:I think it was evilmike and others who said elsewhere that gods are in general overpowered. Do you agree with that? I think it's a valid viewpoint and hopefully you have time to review gods and their abilities to answer such questions for 0.12.
Snake Sneak
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If they are 'too strong', that just means the game is too easy in the opinion of the speaker. Certainly, deities are as strong or stronger an impact on gameplay than most background or species choices, but that's a design choice rather than an inherent problem.
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Heroism has the lowest non-zero piety cost in the game. There's no reason to be having battles without Heroism on. You will make that piety back during the fight. In fact, since Okawaru piety decays quickly during inactivity, and you have to rest longer if you don't use Heroism, odds are you'll end up with higher piety if you do use it during every non-trivial fight than if you don't.
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