finally got some free time on my hands - still didn't manage to test the Jelly Knight idea, but...
nicolae wrote:dondy wrote:(proof through peer pressure is a really weird way of arguing, isn't it? how about formulating your own opinion instead of repeating what others say and accusing other people of not putting much thought into *whatever* - mr. parrot ;p *grmbl*)
I'm not sure how you get peer pressure out of pointing out that most players I've seen talk about Jiyva, as well as most of the devs, all agree that Jiyva's not a very good starting god. But if you really really want to push for it anyway, maybe you can propose Jelly Knights here:
https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... ackgrounds
meh, it's commonly called "proof through peer pressure" if people argue in a way like: A sez B so B is true. It's a meaningless argument because it lacks any value.
cerebovssquire wrote:dondy wrote:so xom is about d1 scumming or just flavour? :s either have repeatedly been considered a bad argument/design :/
also not sure why jiyva (god i hate writing that name, gives me brain cramps) would give you much less experience early?
i should really just test it in wiz mode... the no-loot part can't be THAT horrible imho, i mean noone complains that felids can't use most stuffs and noone complains that fedhas isn't a decent all-runer god either, similarly the-god-that-should-stop-beeing-annoying-to-write is a 3-rune thingy (2 rune if you don't count slime)...
also i didn't deny that ji-nargh isn't too weak at the moment (i implied that buffs could be necessary), it's really easy to see if you compare it to any of the generally considered decent ones.
of course you could alternatively try to fix Xom or simply do both... i just thought the Jelly Knight was a interesting idea that could be discussed (much unlike chaos knights which are "meh" - design wise and somesuch) :p
1) Besides scumming D:1 which is really only possible for Mu and to a certain extent Sp, I named other effects, mutations, etc. If you've ever won with Xom or at least played him for a long time you'll know that there is a lot more to Xom than that: what I named, divine lightning, tactical effects, experience gifts, permanent buddies, dungeon modifation including water and altars, etc etc etc pp.
I assume you have played Xom, so please don't reduce him to two things because you know better yourself.
2) You lose experience because hordes of jellies will basically kill everything pre-Lair, and these hordes of jellies will inhabit basically the whole levels.
i just took the justifications for xom, as starting god, from people and applied it to the design rules of this game (the few i know of). sounds pretty much like beeing a asshat but i just tried to realize if there's a reasonable choice to playing xom as starting god. and most arguments where pretty weak :/
i myself usually just play my DsWn of Xom when i don't know what combination to play but want to play around a little... so xom usually annoyed me instead of suprising me with something good except one time he gave me a neat mutation he took back a few rounds later :p
minmay wrote:dondy wrote:the no-loot part can't be THAT horrible imho, i mean noone complains that felids can't use most stuffs and noone complains that fedhas isn't a decent all-runer god either, similarly the-god-that-should-stop-beeing-annoying-to-write is a 3-rune thingy (2 rune if you don't count slime)...
The no-loot part is that horrible, it's one of the primary reasons felids are so unpopular, Fedhas is near-useless as a 15-rune god and draws complaints about it all the time, and Jiyva is probably more suited to 15-rune games than 3-rune ones.
as i said before i can't argue much about jiyva as starting god, i didn't try it but a few times :/
off topic:
aren't the felids so unpopular because they're rather boring to play because of their limited item choices? at least that's my opinion D:
fedhas is kinda fine imho, the god lacks some minor tweaks - but generally it's quite decent (depending on your class choice) for a 3 rune game; and i'm fine with gods beeing more or less suited for here and there, i dislike gods beeing mostly useless or even harmfull throughout the game tho D: