Short blade changes hurt short sword stabber starts


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Tomb Titivator

Posts: 806

Joined: Sunday, 23rd June 2013, 15:20

Post Sunday, 16th October 2022, 10:47

Short blade changes hurt short sword stabber starts

Hey everyone.

Recently we got a couple changes to short blades, good by themselves, no complaints here. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e8845773e3cb1a3035fb3f1baf4b27ade2b16f9c This one reduced non-dagger SB base damage by one.

This is really painful on trying to stab with a rapier/short sword early game, stuff survives that would not have before. Even on OpDe, with good stealth investment and awesome stealth aptitude! Again, not a problem in general since daggers exist.

However, we have some starts that do only offer a short sword, delver in particular, and there the stabbing penalty compared to a dagger really hurts. Its an awesome stabbing background but it needs to be able to get some stabs! D:5 doesn't generate that many daggers, so can't just pick up one from the ground.

So I propose to change delver short sword start to a vorpal dagger. Damage output in a fight will be roughly similar, stabbing much better, and we will have gained a very interesting stabber background.

For this message the author le_nerd has received thanks:
petercordia

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1119

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Monday, 17th October 2022, 11:46

Re: Short blade changes hurt short sword stabber starts

I must admit I am little bit surprised by this reduction of base damage. Apart from stabbing, short blades were usually rubish, and this change nerfs early game short blades (when sometimes you use them) in the name of an end game character who for some strange reason trained short blades to 15? One benefit short blades has is that you do not need high levels, and 10 is minimum delay for dagger stabbing or 8 for a high slaying/elec/pain quick blade. If your character has much higher dex than strength, with the new changes you are much more likely to use a long blade (I mean even without the base damage reduction, because short blades were rubish before this).

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 806

Joined: Sunday, 23rd June 2013, 15:20

Post Monday, 17th October 2022, 13:34

Re: Short blade changes hurt short sword stabber starts

The reduction commit says "its to get people to not just tab with SB, instead using creative solutions". I agree that not many people are going to be moved by that.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1119

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Monday, 17th October 2022, 15:10

Re: Short blade changes hurt short sword stabber starts

Is it creative to use a long blade instead? I really wonder what is a "creative" solution.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 806

Joined: Sunday, 23rd June 2013, 15:20

Post Monday, 17th October 2022, 18:50

Re: Short blade changes hurt short sword stabber starts

Just the usual stuff, self-mutating for aux attacks, using summons for stab opportunities, hexes, strong evo for elite monsters etc.

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