sword of power's *base* damage should scale with HP


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Spider Stomper

Posts: 236

Joined: Saturday, 2nd July 2016, 13:16

Post Tuesday, 19th May 2020, 17:26

sword of power's *base* damage should scale with HP

It's generally recognized that the Sword of Power lacks a niche. The weapon's HP scaling makes it mainly useful to high XL-characters, but these characters will usually have access to, and be better served by, comparably effective weapons that do not risk becoming much worse in emergencies. Given the dev team's (great!) current goal of reworking the game's unrands to make them more interesting and impactful, this means the weapon should be changed.

As per the subject line, I suggest changing the scaling effect so that it increases base damage rather than slaying. While being pretty simple, this change would make the item much more powerful than normal weapons under ideal conditions, while preserving its risk/reward mechanic. As a bonus, it would reinforce the item's "reward the powerful with power/meek with weakness" theme, since the damage would be much more dependent on the wielder's Strength and skills.

For example, if the scaling worked like it currently does, the weapon's base damage would start at 15 and increase by 1 for every 10 HP, up to a maximum bonus of 27 (for a total of 42). At 20 long blades, this would make the max damage comparable to transmutation-enhanced unarmed damage at similar skill (i.e. more damage than Blade Hands, but less than Dragon Form).

This strikes me as rather high, but of course the numbers could be tweaked via playtesting. Offhand, my own suggestion here would be to set the weapon's delay to 20—so it would take 26 skill to hit mindelay—which would again reinforce what the weapon is supposed to be thematically (both as a big goddamn sword and as a weapon that demands a lot from its wielder) and bring its power closer in line with what Blade Hands can get you at the same level of unarmed. I'd also suggest adding some kind of unwield penalty (maybe a few turns of slow) to make it harder to mitigate the risk by switching to another weapon at low HP.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 689

Joined: Saturday, 12th December 2015, 23:54

Post Tuesday, 19th May 2020, 18:43

Re: sword of power's *base* damage should scale with HP

Agree that sword of power should be changed. I think it's statistically somewhat better than most players think (been a while since I've fsimmed it though), but at best it's a kind of boring item that you always carry a swap for. Swap penalty plus better stats seems like a reasonable way to go. No comment on the specific numbers.

For this message the author Hellmonk has received thanks: 2
chequers, luckless

Spider Stomper

Posts: 236

Joined: Saturday, 2nd July 2016, 13:16

Post Tuesday, 19th May 2020, 21:02

Re: sword of power's *base* damage should scale with HP

Hellmonk wrote:I think it's statistically somewhat better than most players think (been a while since I've fsimmed it though), but at best it's a kind of boring item that you always carry a swap for.

It's not fsim, but a dice simulator programmed with the learndb formulas suggests that (true to the wiki) it's indeed extremely close to a +9 freezing triple sword at 270+ HP. (The math I used doesn't take into account accuracy, but given how steep the diminishing returns are there I don't think that could make a big difference.)

edit: fwiw, a good swap penalty might be weakness + drain.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 00:52

Post Tuesday, 19th May 2020, 21:33

Re: sword of power's *base* damage should scale with HP

You don't have to train long blades to 26 to use the sword of power.
I'm with tasonir on this one.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 236

Joined: Saturday, 2nd July 2016, 13:16

Post Tuesday, 19th May 2020, 22:06

Re: sword of power's *base* damage should scale with HP

Midn8 wrote:You don't have to train long blades to 26 to use the sword of power.

I'm guessing you mean 24, which is what you need to get triple swords to mindelay? Sure, but so what? These numbers are for 270 hp, which you normally only hit at really high XLs--high enough for getting long blades to 24 not to be a big deal. (At 200 HP/+20, the sword of power is instead extremely close to a +9 branded greatsword.)

Again, the weapon definitely needs to change if it's going to be interesting.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 00:52

Post Sunday, 7th June 2020, 17:57

Re: sword of power's *base* damage should scale with HP

My suggestion was to give it strength scaling from Int as well, because Knowledge is Power, or otherwise give it a brand that does increased damage the more INT you have. The sword of power currently is lame for sure, and encourages having a swap weapon whenever you get below x HP.
I'm with tasonir on this one.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 377

Joined: Thursday, 12th June 2014, 06:56

Post Sunday, 7th June 2020, 21:40

Re: sword of power's *base* damage should scale with HP

An easy way to eliminate the "swap to a different weapon at low HP" problem would be to make the Sword of Power be cursed unless you're at full HP.

That actually might go well with making it scale with INT in addition to HP - it would be a weapon for characters who use melee but in a pinch have other ways to deal damage (or escape).

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 7th June 2020, 23:40

Re: sword of power's *base* damage should scale with HP

luckless wrote:These numbers are for 270 hp, which you normally only hit at really high XLs
If you berserk, you "only" need 180 base HP.
ion_frigate wrote:An easy way to eliminate the "swap to a different weapon at low HP" problem would be to make the Sword of Power be cursed unless you're at full HP.
Or base its enchantment on max HP instead of current HP.

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